wonderingwanderer

Like queer people and people of color and stuff? Agreed. They are marginalized far too often.

I agree with that, but I disagree with the common sentiment that it makes it okay to do the same to cishet white men.

Those do sound like personal and moral failings.

I also agree that voting for trump would be a personal moral failing, and I despise people who do that. What I'm saying is that voting for trump might not have had the allure that it did for some people if his message that "it's okay to be white now" didn't have the effect on them that it did

Their base is so large because there are so many bigots.

The examples you describe are undeniably terrible people, and those actions are atrocious. There's no excusing that, and I'm not attempting to. But among the 77 million people who voted for trump in 2024, those examples are a small percentage. How many trump voters were merely disaffected people who felt like they had no place until they were welcomed into social circles where covert racism is normalized? It's a slippery slope, especially in the age of social media.

There's a reason right-wing propaganda is so effective at what it does. I'm talking about the radicalization of large portions of the populace. How else do you explain the sudden shift of gen z toward the right? Clearly it held some attraction for them. Do you mean to tell me all those people were just inherently bad and destined to vote that way regardless of life circumstances?

Radicalization doesn't start from "they were born evil." It starts from nefarious actors targeting vulnerable groups and individuals, and in this case they found a wealth of disaffected youths, most of whom were cishet white males, who felt like the world was leaving them behind and that there wasn't a place for them in society anymore. Do you think that messaging would have worked if it didn't ring true for them at some level?

Mind you, I have some experience with investigating patterns of radicalization, so I'm not simply talking out of my ass here.

And again, I'm not attempting to excuse trump voters. I find them all deplorable. What I'm arguing is that there was a set of circumstances that led people in large numbers down the rabbit holes that led them to become trump supporters, and those circumstances can't be narrowed down to just simply "they were born evil and were always going to be evil." That mentality doesn't help anybody, and it doesn't help solve the problem. We have to look at all of the contributing factors in order to understand the problem if we're ever going to remedy it. Although at this point I'm really beginning to wonder whether it's past the point where it's remediable.

Do you feel respected within it?

Pretty much. That's why we are friends.

Well I'm happy for you that you found a friend group that respects you and doesn't constantly hold your whiteness or your maleness over your head as if it's a moral failing for which you owe them something.

Lol, why on earth would I only hang out with white men?

Only if everyone else rejects you for being a white man. Racists have other reasons, but I wasn't under that impression about you, don't worry

Turning that anger against people who are already marginalized by society is a wild moral failing.

Again, I agree. However, why is it different when people turn their anger against white men as a whole? For the record, I'm not just talking about racists and sexists when I say "white men." A big problem with this discussion is that whenever I say "white men," people seem to think I mean "racists and misogynists." I don't, and that's a false equivalence. I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself by saying there's no justification for racist or sexist behavior. The thing I take issue with is how it's seemingly okay to blame white men as a whole for the racism and misogyny of a relatively small proportion of them.

This whole discussion started because someone mentioned class solidarity and another person mentioned "except for cis white men" or something to that effect. And that seems to be a very common pattern these days.

I mean, I went to college not that long ago and people thought it was white supremacy that I got better grades than them. I've seen some of the papers they turned in. They didn't like it if I corrected their grammar/spelling/punctuation during the peer editing process, they thought that made me racist. I mean, if you want to be functionally illiterate that's fine, but then don't blame me for getting a better grade on an assignment. But no, if a white man gets the best grade in the class then the only possible explanation must be institutional racism and patriarchy. They completely invalidated my strengths, which were intelligence and meticulous attention to detail. The time and effort I put into writing a decent paper didn't count for anything. The stress of being a perfectionist didn't count for anything. People hated me because I was a white man and I got good grades, and that was unacceptable to them. Nothing else mattered, because the very act of me doing well was enough evidence to them to casually throw around labels like "racism" and "misogyny." I couldn't possibly have done as well if the system wasn't rigged in my favor, as far as they were concerned.

It was pretty insulting, especially since I was never good at sports. Like, I wouldn't get upset if you beat me at basketball. I'm used to losing, it's fine. At least let me have my intelligence, don't take that away from me.

I sorta let them win though, cause I was so afraid of being called a racist or whatever, so instead of continuing in academia I killed a lot of braincells with drugs and alcohol. Maybe I'd be less racist in their eyes then? Nope, it wasn't enough. Nothing was ever enough. So fuck it, you know?

Someone queue up "Swan Lake"

Just because their economy is on the verge of collapse doesn't mean they won't keep sending millions of "undesirables" into the meat grinder.

They might be lacking in heavy equipment and expertise in maneuver warfare, but a million invaders still takes about a million rounds of ammo to pacify.

We can hope the russian economy collapses and the empire balkanizes, effectively making it impossible for them to keep up their war of attrition. The sooner it ends, the sooner we can stop producing munitions and the sooner people stop dying.

I think I read somewhere that the UK is developing a new lazer that can take down hypersonic ballistic missiles for approximately the cost of the electricity it consumes. Pretty sweet if true.

Is that you volunteering to throw the first brick?

That sucks, dude

Did you miss the part where I said that I don't either? I'd rather wither away in isolation than hang out with maga types.

In terms of sheer numbers, however, when a large portion of a certain demographic are made to feel rejected from mainstream society, they tend to form a counterculture. In this case, a large portion of the maga base might not have become so vile if they had found validation and acceptance anywhere else. I'm not saying the maga base wouldn't be vile, but their numbers would be much smaller without anyone to recruit.

Do you have a friend group? Is it culturally diverse? Do you feel respected within it? Or if it's all white dudes, does anyone ever suggest it's too homogenous?

Or are you a loner like me? If so, how do you feel about that? Does anyone ever treat you like your isolation is a moral failing on your part?

I genuinely would like to know.

Stealing from the poor to give to the rich...

So much capitalism. What a free market /s

FUCK THAT!

If taxpayers pay for it, then taxpayers should receive the profits.

Why the fuck should taxpayers finance capitalist ventures that only enrich the shareholders?