probablyaCat

Perhaps if the government of Gaza spent more on food and water than rockets and guns then the people would have more of it. They have the money to pay families of suicide bombers. They have money for arms. Yet it is Israel who is at fault. Israel withdraw from Gaza in an offering of peace and all Gaza did was become worse. And they didn't storm an inhabited place. Look at the actual history of that region.

Hell even the al aqsa mosque that is "the third holiest site" was ignored and not maintained. Israel exist. It has a right to exist. Until Hamas and the PLO are willing to agree to that, their can be no peace. They are the ones who refused to accept any agreement that required them to accept Israel as a nation.

They literally did have the right. Just because you don't like the way the world works didn't make it not work that way.

Illegally took land given to them by the countries in control of that land after said countries lost a war against them? Do you even know the history of how Israel was given control over the territories?

If you really want to take issue with analogy comparison then the real problem is the original was fucking stupid. This isn't punching. This is life and death. And the terrorists in Gaza are choosing death. What should Israel's response be, in your opinion? Palestinian governments have consistently walked away from peace talks. Hamas has consistently used human shields. Used hospitals and mosques as bases for rocket launches. What do you think is a proper response?

Perhaps Israel should unilaterally define the borders, ask the world to recognize them, and hope that the group that has the destruction of Israel in it's platform will accept that and stop attacking Israeli civilians?

Show me where I was wrong then.

I'm not selective. They had firm borders offered to them by the country in control of the territory at the time. Then they were attacked by bordering countries multiple times. Those countries lost. And yes Israel received help. Just like Ukraine now. And you should really look at how that military aid works. None of what I said was untrue.

Palestine has never been a recognized country. You are showing your ignorance. Prior to 1948 it was controlled by the British. Prior to that, controlled by the surrounding countries.

Have you ever actually read a bit of history on that region beyond the comments on reddit? Like the 3 days war, the Yom kippur war, the peace talks? Seriously? Palestine has had so many opportunities to form their own country. But won't even start if it requires accepting Israel as an independent state as well.

Israelis have certainly become more cruel and jaded as the years have gone on. But this isn't two kids on a playground. This is a stable adult trying to barter with a belligerent drunk cousin who says if he can't inherit everything then he'll just burn it all to the ground and take the ashes.

They didn't huh? Ignorant huh? So wait, when the area was partitioned by the British, and the Zionists said "yep, we'll take it." But the Palestinians said no, because all these surrounding countries have said they'll drive all the Jews in the sea to kill them all, and those countries did attempt that, twice, and failed, and then in all of the peace talks, the Palestinians said no to any plan that required Israel also be recognized as a state, that was Israel starting it? Stfu. You know nothing. Go look up the three days war and the Yom kippur war. See why the "disputed" territories are under Israeli control. Go read about which side walked out on the peace talks. Or read about the many years those territories were controlled by Egypt and Jordan and could have easily been formed as independent countries then by Jordan and Egypt. But they wouldn't permit it.

The truth is, Israel has had to fight for survival from the moment of its inception.

Then, ask yourself what would happen if Mexico fired rockets into California at civilians on a regular basis. Or if Albania fired rockets into Italy or Greece.

And let us not ignore that Gaza is the territory that Israel demobilized from and left entirely in the hands of the Palestinian people. And look at how that worked out.

So basically any time a group of politicians decide they don't like the laws then they don't have to follow them and can do whatever they want? Big Trump supporter huh?

And there is an entire legal process for which those politicians could have had a legal referendum. They just decided that was too hard.

It is a complicated issue, because forming a functioning society is a complicated process. And Catalunya has entered into agreements from which they can't just act like little Timmy on the playground and say it didn't count because it was reverse day when he said it.

And again. I don't have strong feelings about the amnesty other than the external problems it could cause like an ultra right government coming into power next election. I don't even have major feelings about whether they should be allowed to leave. I do think it would be disastrous for them. They would essentially become a landlocked country, outside of the EU, lose freedom of movement to anywhere but Andorra probably, just holding the illegal referendum caused them to lose so much business and for what purpose?

This isn't the same as the issues in Basque country that predated the EU. It isn't Ireland. This is much closer to Brexit where a minority of politicians are pushing an ideology of Us vs Them. And I'm aware that there are legitimate complaints that Catalunya has. But there are much easier and more practical ways of trying to fix those complaints.

What's happening here is more similar to Milton county Georgia begging to be annexed by Fulton county (Atlanta) when they were broke, but now that things are good they want to leave and no longer be part of a system that has certainly benefitted them in many ways.

You are being an ideologue. You should give pragmatism a try.