probablyaCat

joined 2 years ago
[–] probablyaCat@kbin.social -1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

2.2 million were displaced and put into refugee camps. 1.6 million returned.

Also the IDF has Arab soldiers as well.

[–] probablyaCat@kbin.social 14 points 2 years ago

This is why my pimp always makes me get paid up front.

[–] probablyaCat@kbin.social -1 points 2 years ago (3 children)

It doesn't. They also share a border with Egypt. Have they tried to make good diplomatic relations with them?

[–] probablyaCat@kbin.social 6 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Yes. Pakistani troops are definitely better trained and more controlled than the Israeli military. That sounds right. Also, you are overlooking some big differences. The civilian population could "easily" leave and did. And the Pakistani Taliban were an organized group of militants more easily separated from the general population.

[–] probablyaCat@kbin.social 20 points 2 years ago

Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim brotherhood. Egypt has a long history of issues with the Muslim brotherhood. Some of it, in fact, just happened. They are not keen on more of that trouble.

[–] probablyaCat@kbin.social -1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

We let Germany decide? Out of all conflicts about disputed territories that was a weird one to choose.

[–] probablyaCat@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Yes. It worked super well to prevent world war 2.

[–] probablyaCat@kbin.social -3 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Hamas came into power when Bibi wasn't PM. And when Israel was planning their withdrawal, Bibi actually fought against it saying exactly this would happen.

While I'm a big supporter of Israel (so I know I'm biased), I can't stand Bibi and especially don't like this current coalition. But Bibi isn't the maker of this current situation.

[–] probablyaCat@kbin.social 13 points 2 years ago (6 children)

It would seem to be the case. And I'm not sure what Hamas thought would happen.

[–] probablyaCat@kbin.social 7 points 2 years ago (34 children)

Honestly this is an awful situation. But the reason you don't see more harsh criticisms from world leaders (and there have been criticisms and statements calling some of what they are doing as illegal) is because the world leaders know that they may need to same option if something similar happens to them.

Do you have a better suggestion for what Israel should do in order to respond. And saying "free Palestine" doesn't count. They completely left Gaza and it got worse. I can't stand Bibi, but he absolutely called it when they were planning to leave Gaza. The blockade of Gaza didn't start until Hamas took over. And do recall Egypt is also blockading.

If Tijuana started launching rockets and attacked thousands of civilians in California, what do think the response would look like? Or if Morocco did the same to Ceuta?

I don't see how this attack ends. I mean it has absolutely destroyed the chance for Gaza reps to be involved in peace talks. Not that there was much chance of that. Honestly, if I had to guess, Israel plans to wipe out all of the higher up Hamas this time in an attempt to bring Gaza back under the PA/Fatah.

But, given the situation is what it is, how do you think the Israeli government should respond?

[–] probablyaCat@kbin.social -1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Real funny way to say you would prefer to not see the other sides' thoughts.

So I'll make this one short. You said

Conquerors and colonizers (the British, but it applies to Israel as well) do not have inherent right to rule.

The thing is, there is no god (or natural law of the universe) given set in stone right to rule. But the de facto and often de jure truth is that historically they do. Human has functioned as such since the time when multiple species of humans existed.

[–] probablyaCat@kbin.social -1 points 2 years ago (3 children)

This must be a neat little world you live in where world history doesn't exist and norms of a time period weren't real and didn't matter. Hell, by your method of accounting, I suppose Europe needs to import about 330 million Americans.

I'm not supporting imperialism. It was an awful thing. The genocide of the natives in the Americas was absolutely despicable. The impact around the world was by and large awful for those being colonized. But Israelis are not colonizers in Israel. They have had a population there even under Muslim rule.

To actually want to find a peaceful resolution, you must start with an understanding of how the world actually works.

Country borders have been built. Having might did allow you to expand your empire since time immemorial. And the modern form of Israel came from fighting and diplomacy with the British, who had conquered that land. Israel legally established itself with firm borders just as the Palestinians were offered.

That is the real world. And that is the situation you must work with. Whether you think it is fair or not.

And whether or not you like it, both the west bank and Gaza (and much more) were ceded to Israel by the countries controlling those territories prior to the war. And Israel has also been willing to make land for peace agreements as it did with Egypt and the Sinai peninsula. Jordan and Egypt withdrew their sovereignty. Up until that time they could have also made Palestine an independent state. They didn't.

With all of that being said, after many years of war of war and fighting and disagreements, Israel has become less diplomatic. Especially after the total demobilization of Gaza. Them leaving Gaza is what allowed this current attack to happen.

And the harsh truth is that the Palestinians could have a country rather quickly, but it would just be less than what they demand and want. They are in a weak bargaining position. Made weaker by the repeated attacks. But for all intents and purposes, Gaza has been a sovereign territory for 18 years. And they have done nothing in the name of peace.

It is long, complicated, and difficult. And I support the Palestinians getting their own sovereignty and nation. I support land swaps. But I also acknowledge the reality of the situation requires that the Palestinians give up on some things they have sworn to not give up on. Israel has not kept Muslims from visiting their holy sites, the way Jews were denied in spite of the agreements Jordan made with the UN. In fact, it was Jordanian(I believe) troops that would not allow me to visit inside the temple mount, because I'm not a Muslim.

Negotiations require flexibility. And while Israel has shown that flexibility with land swaps in exchange for the settlements, the other side doesn't even want to be required to acknowledge Israel as having a right to exist. Border disputes happen all the time and are worked out in different ways, but very often one side can end up with less than they want. But isn't that worth taking over the current situation?

Look up Martín Garcia island. Or the Andes boundaries. The Sverdrup islands. Hanish islands. The Baltic sea with Poland and Denmark.

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