lmao no worries, it happens now and then 
muddi
joined 5 years ago
Imagine honestly caring about what someone drinks
Like a guy drinking human blood, responding to someone saying "wtf why would you do that"
Was this a bad joke or did I misunderstand something??
Like that guy who drank his victims' blood
This is really more of aporia about selfhood than a proof by contradiction against free will. I mean it is also the latter, but as a side effect.
Anyways the reason I'm saying this is that it has been discussed outside the West (where "free will" in itself is important, especially in Christian theology). For example, the entirety of the Indian philosophical traditions could be described as the questioning the nature of the self.
Buddhism is especially important here. The nature of the self is a tricky question with seemingly vague and contradictory answers. The self neither exists, doesn't exist, doesn't exist and not exist both, nor neither... rather it's a question not to even be answered.
I like these kind of aporetic topics. I believe that in Buddhism the real solution is to experience the truth of a matter personally ie. through meditative insight and enlightenment. Or maybe getting high.
Another way to put it is that it is a linguistic or cognitive issue that requires a perspective shift...maybe Wittgensteinian? That the concept of a self or free will is a limiting one that will lead to holes and contradictions in systems of logic, and are really more useful as a conventional marker for an abstraction. But not reality itself in itself
That's what I would expect a serial killer to say
I like to do the same, from the perspective of Indian philosophy especially as it's my own background.
There is already similarity and even borrowings in Western philosophy from the East and elsewhere. I'm of the opinion that if capitalism developed somewhere else in the world besides Europe, communism would have still arisen, although maybe by a slightly different philosophical path.
I'm interested to see what other cultural traditions could have offered in these alternative timelines so to speak
No, their metaphor was not ignorant at all.
I was half-joking, but yes it was ignorant? Lesbians don't choose their sexuality, but people do choose to be vegan. There is an ignorance of sexuality and diet there. Also, people do try going vegan, eat some fake meat and cheese, and eventually go back to eating meat because they still crave meat in itself. This does happen. This is also related to those people who sneak in or revert to eating meat because of some cultural or family tradition, or peer pressure from friends. One vegan I knew who was going on for 25 years ate a steak to impress his business friends instead of speaking up to say he didn't want to eat at a meat-only restaurant. Take a look at my other comments here, I am speaking about this topic at the social level, not how individuals like the taste of meat or fake meat.
there is nothing wrong with it at all
Yeah I know, I have been saying that. This is not a moral argument. This is a rational one, and one perhaps from a medical or public health perspective: the cultural desire to obtain "meat" as a thing in itself is the cause for the demand of meat or meat alternatives. It's great that under capitalism that solutions can be provided via the market and supply-and-demand, whatever, but it doesn't address the reason why there is a demand in the first place.
How I know it's a cultivated desire: it doesn't exist across cultures. Hell it doesn't exist within the western fake meat market itself: how much fake seafood do you see engineered out there? Or exotic meats ie objects perfectly engineered to mimic dog, cat, or even human meat? I'm sure human taste buds can enjoy long pork, real or fake. Yet basically no one is asking for this right?
Hence this meme
Yeah, if they were Indian. The culture around meat is different than in the West eg. some people only eat meat on a certain day or weekend. Even then, the approach is that meat is disgusting and needs to be cooked and spiced thoroughly before consuming anyhow. And there is already a long and popular tradition of simple alternatives to meat dishes like using potatoes or paneer (or "soy paneer" aka tofu to make it vegan)
Again, my point is that it is not about the individual but the social ingraining and pressure around meat as a category in itself for individuals
Okay but we aren't there yet and the vegans who I know who have broken their mental attachment to this meat "culture" have not even been tempted to go back once compared to those others
I get it but this is an emotional appeal. I'm just trying to explain the logic of what was being said here
I like the fake meat stuff too, and often try to make it myself even though I've never had meat on purpose in my life and actually throw up if I do accidentally. I just like the kitchen chemistry aspect of it I guess
I'm not saying we should stop making vegan alternatives to meat. I'm saying people should stop desiring meat or meat alternatives. Because logically that desire of meat is the cause of both meat and meat alternatives. Like how the cure to nicotine addiction isn't nicotine patches alone
Honestly I see it in actual historians too. Texts always have something along the lines of "yes, the [insert non-European civilization] had _, but only Europeans went far enough to _"
Shit like how ancient civilizations had invented calculus, calculated pi to several digits, observed the cosmos, etc. but it's only the ancient Greeks who contributed to history apparently. Seems unprofessional as hell. It's not that dissimilar to white supremacists who say " everyone practiced slavery, but only Europeans abolished it"
It's often linked to some geographic or cultural uniqueness of Europe, like how they didn't have famines or shit and so they were able to be creative about nature that wasn't chaotic and devastating.