mozz

Dude I'm voting for you

it's a statement that he isn't doing enough to address the problem or even mitigate the bulk of the harm those things have.. Right?

So on those specific topics: He introduced a bill to legalize marijuana federally, he set free anyone in federal prison for possession, and he requested for the DEA to reschedule marijuana (although the latter isn't real impactful in comparison to the first two). What else would you like him to do? Why does that represent him not doing enough to address the problem and a reason to oppose him specifically?

I see a potential misinterpretation if someone said something about his approval of new oil drilling in Alaska (after campaigning on 'no new drilling contracts') - or approval of new gas pipelines - as an indication of "active" harm to the environment.

Scientists estimate that his climate bill is set to reduce emissions by 40% by 2030. He tried to do more, but Manchin and Sinema blocked him, and he tried again and got the 40% version through. Why is that not mitigating the harm? If we posit that he doesn't have a magic wand that he can use to directly alter the behavior of every government agency and company in the US, can we measure his overall impact based on the overall expected emissions in total based on what he did?

Here's one summary of why Biden might have approved the Willow project.

Here's one summary of why he might have approved the Mountain Valley pipeline.

You might look at that and say, well, that's establishment crap, and if he were a good leftist he would have done X, Y, and Z instead of approving those projects. And sure, for all I know you'd be right in saying that. To be honest, I'm not real qualified to say; I'm just showing you what I just found in the news about it. But let me ask this -- do you think that judging his impact on the climate based on an overall reduction in emissions from all of his legislative actions in total is a fair way to judge his impact?

Leftists give more weight to real climate impact over things liberals tend to give weight to, such as economic growth and GDP or international energy independence or hostile foreign relations.

What is climate impact, if not emissions? I haven't said a word here about GDP or anything like that as a way of judging the impact of his actions.

(Edit: Here's a breakdown of the climate bill and its expected impacts)

i'm not sure what inaccurate accusations this is in reference to

So like two examples would be saying Biden's bad on marijuana policy, or saying he's bad for the climate because he's not doing enough to drag the US government into the vague proximity of something that will enable us to continue existing in 100 years.

Expressing objections loudly is the actual definition of protest, which is effective solely by a function of its potential to damage reputation or public support. A protest lacking genuine threat is nothing more than political self-indulgence.

You might as well be complaining that the protest is too effective, IMHO.

Not sure how else to say it. Doing this sounds great. Doing it over things that Biden didn't do, I don't agree with. Attacking him from the left and saying he better pass another climate bill that's 5 times more effective during his second term because what he did isn't nearly enough, sure, sounds great. In combination with trying to give the people who blocked him from being able to do more have some trouble in their elections sounds even better. Attacking him from the nonsense-perspective that he's actively hurting the climate on purpose and using right-wing talking points to make that case, giving him trouble in his election against Donald Trump with no particular way that he could address your concern and thus no productive pressure on him that will produce a good result, that sounds less great. Surely that makes sense?

(I'm not saying that you're doing any of the above things -- just saying what I most firmly disagree with about OP and a lot of the people I've been talking to about this.)

I mean I'm sort of of two minds about it... like, I actually like the dispassionate court system, letting gravitas and justice and obeying the guardrails of democracy determine the outcome, not just showing up in a mob and whoever rings enough cowbells can make the other side look foolish and so they get their way.

And yet on the other hand, fuck him. Look at him standing there all stupid and corrupt, trying to pretend he's not going to prison and it's not hurting his feelings to have people openly shitting on him in public and he can't say anything back because he really is a liar and criminal. Look at him! It's hilarious. He tried to murder democracy and he deserves to suffer. Fuck 'im.

Protesting against Biden now is the best time and person to be protesting, and threatening to withhold support is as much leverage any leftist will ever have outside of less-than-legal economic disruption.

Yeah, sounds great. I talked about this with respect to Gaza; I think this is a good idea.

We are however all the way back at the full-circle point of, where does making up things that Biden didn't do and accusing him of doing them and so laying some propaganda groundwork for Trump to win the general election fit into that.

"Put your concerns aside so that you can work for change when the stakes are lower" is just asking those people to sacrifice the only political leverage they have so that a politician that is ambivalent about their concerns can win re-election.

I think these people who are working for change will be in a better position to do so if there's an extra billion tons of CO2 per year not getting put into the atmosphere, and if they can protest without worrying if paramilitary forces are going to shoot them with lethal rounds. That means voting for Biden in this election. I'm certainly not telling them to put anything aside while they're doing that.

How it started

Then what happened

How it's going

So is this, like, a one-way thing? Like I listen to their viewpoints but if I say my viewpoint, then it's "You're not listening" and then repetition of the viewpoint?

They're welcome to their opinion. This is mine, including why I think some particular ones of them are shills, and including that if anyone is concerned with activism outside of the system and real change in the United States they should be breaking their back making sure it's not Trump in the fall, because unlike Biden he will absolutely destroy their ability to organize and get anything done, maybe until it's permanently too late to do anything productive for the planet.

You can, of course, think what you like about it. Just stating my take on it and answering your question.

Absolutely yes. I am speculating and sharing the results of and reasons for my speculation.

I am totally unconcerned with who is majority and minority when forming my opinions. In this case it seems like a big majority of lemmy.world users agree with me, which is nifty, but it forms 0 part of why I am saying these things.

LMAO, dude normal people don't spend all their days on political comment threads writing paragraph long diatribes with cited sources.

Have you been on the internet before?

Also look you keep getting down voted.

Sorry, what's the most upvoted comment on this post?

A lot of people are sick of the flood. Sometimes individual sections of a particular comment thread will all get the same little bloc of 3-10 upvotes or downvotes (in mirror image depending on who's on which "side"), all of a sudden at the same time. Is that the downvoting that you're saying keeps happening to me? I can list some specific examples if you want.

This is all speculation at this point, cause I assume they are real and think; the way they present to think, is how they think.

Random example:

• return2ozma says he's trying to help the Democrats by pointing out issues with Biden, because he's concerned that Trump might win, because he's far-left
• return2ozma posts a meme about how Biden's done nothing about marijuana policy after promising that he would, and that's a betrayal of people who voted for him
• I point out that Biden introduced a bill for federal marijuana legalization (the Republicans defeated it), requested rescheduling of marijuana by the DEA, and pardoned anyone in federal prison for possession. I ask him what else he's asking Biden to do
• return2ozma goes silent and leaves the meme up

There are a few different explanations for that, and obviously no one's obligated to keep talking to me if they don't feel like it or to explain themselves in order to leave a post up. But it doesn't line up real well with the "he is who he says he is" explanation.

But that's why I talk. See if there is a kernel of truth.

Yep, this I'm in agreement with. I've reached the state that Carl Sagan calls "postjudice" at this point -- after some interactions like the one above, I feel like I have pretty good reasons for concluding that a lot of these people are full of shit. You are, of course, free to reach your own conclusions.