mozz

joined 2 years ago
[–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 2 points 1 year ago (25 children)

I don't think it's team sports. I think it's one of two things:

  1. Sometimes people just have a kind of pathology where they like to argue on the internet, because it's satisfying, and they have to "win" or present as a winner in every conversation, and so facts and reality (even demonstrable reality like what the other person said or what the primary sources say) sort of have to bend to what would let them "win" by making some claim or accusation.
  2. I looked over Linkerbaan's user a little bit and it has a little bit of a singular focus on Democrats and Biden ("Democrats are just Republicans these days" "Biden is actively violating Leahy law" "Trump isn't much different than any generic Republican"). Aside from picking crazypants arguments about Hamas not raping anybody, the only other real trend to their comments is domestic politics with a don't-vote-for-Democrats-fellow-leftists flavor that seems oddly familiar.

I initially thought they were way too committed and energetic about this stance they're taking about the UN report, to be any kind of shill, but now I'm less sure. They're certainly posting with a level of energy and aggressiveness that makes a lot more sense if it's their job, and usually people who have come by their counterfactual opinions organically have some kind of structure built up in their head for why it makes sense to them (Like they would say the UN report is crazy and biased and can't be trusted for some reason -- they wouldn't just insist for 2 days that it says a huge variety of very specific things that it doesn't say, and then just not address it on any level when someone points out the contradiction while continuing to go HAM on arguing about it. The second one sounds more like disinformation poster behavior to me.)

I don't really know. They don't act like most shills (or who I believe to be shills) that I have encountered. Like if you just looked at their comments arguing about Hamas, you probably wouldn't predict that their other singular area of focus in comments would be Biden and the Democrats. But the more that I look back over the conversation + take a look over their user, the more it makes sense to me as an explanation.

(Oooh... I just looked a little further; they also use the phrase "blue MAGA," and if you look back past the current conversation there's a lot more of a focus on Biden and Democrats and quite a concerted effort to link Israel's policies to Biden. The plot thickens.)

[–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Interesting information and accurate but this is not what's useful for playing Scrabble

Actually useful things for every Scrabble player to memorize:

  • The full list of 2-letter words
  • The full list of words that have "Q" but not "U"
  • Have some familiarity with common bingos (7-letter words)

If you wanted to proceed from there, you could study the 3-letter words, and expand your study of the bingos and expand it to 8-letter words.

[–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 13 points 1 year ago

Biiig bada boom

[–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yeah. I'm honestly a little bit just curious about how their brain works, at this point.

[–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Thread here

I had a feeling you would not be eager to engage with the question of why you are working so vigorously to defend rape

[–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I forgot what conversation I was in 🥲

I've answered the question of why I think Israel has given resistance to the investigation in general. "I suspect was caused by them wanting to be able to lie without anyone investigating their lies" was what I said. (And, actually, I would add to that just a general hostility to the UN based on the fact that the UN keeps pointing out that they're doing war crimes and wanting to investigate IDF sexual violence and similar things the Israelis don't want.) I've asked for more details about exactly what you mean, if you want a more specific answer pertaining to some more specific behavior on Israel's part.

If you want to provide those details, I'm happy to provide that more detailed answer, and if not, I'm not sure what else I could do. I'm aware that this whole conversation is an attempt by you to pivot away from the question "did Hamas rape a bunch of people?", so I'm a little reluctant to give it any energy at all, but I did say I would answer anything you wanted to ask, so there's the answer.

[–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I had a feeling you wouldn't want to answer my questions. All good.

I don't think it's a good use of my time to just keep dealing with you indefinitely for any amount of Gish Galloping you feel like doing -- I did offer to answer your questions without dodging, though, so:

You keep failing to answer why israel is blocking the official UN investigation.

Two answers:

  • I talked about this here, giving one level of answer, and asking you for some details which could inform a little more complete answer depending on what you're even claiming had happened
  • UN investigators already concluded in Patten's report that there was quite a bit of rape during the October 7th attack and of hostages, notwithstanding your pretense that it didn't conclude that, or wasn't a "legal" investigation and that invalidates it, or that it contained no new information, or other wildly counterfactual things.

Honestly, dude, don't you feel bad about this? A whole bunch of innocent people got raped and are continuing to be raped, and you're over here standing up for the people who did it, trying to spread propaganda implying that it didn't happen, by twisting language around to say well the report that concluded that it happened wasn't a legal investigation, or some other weird little constructions, to obfuscate the very clear evidence which we've already talked about.

My question is, why? Why are you taking that stance? Aren't you against rape, whether or not the investigation that concluded that it happened was a legal investigation or not? I would think that's a pretty easy moral test to pass.

[–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 7 points 1 year ago (35 children)

Yeah I had this sort of sudden moment of clarity just now like dude WTF am I thinking investing this level of time and energy into this person

I think a certain amount of debunking was productive but I think the back and forth is sufficient to speak for itself and I've had a chance to quote enough sections of the report to show what's going on, at this point.

[–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Dude I don't want to just feed into the Gish Gallop indefinitely 🥲

I am curious, what exactly do you mean by Israel blocking the UN investigation? I know what the report says in section II(A) which sort of matches that description; I know they gave some resistance to the idea of investigating, but I am curious exactly what behavior you're talking about, so I can deal with what you're claiming a little more directly if I feel like investing the time into it.

[–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The only thing Patten concludes is

that "there are reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred during the 7 October attacks in multiple locations across Gaza periphery, including rape and gang rape, in at least three locations" and that "With respect to hostages, the mission team found clear and convincing information that some have been subjected to various forms of conflict-related sexual violence including rape and sexualized torture and sexualized cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment and it also has reasonable grounds to believe that such violence may be ongoing"

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