kpw

Disappointed this wasn't about GChat.

It doesn't clash at all. If startups keep re-inventing the wheel just to have shiny things to sell investors on we end up with fragmentation which is terrible for interoperability. For example it's impossible to send an encrypted message to a Matrix user using any XMPP client, since Matrix bridges can't handle end-to-end encryption. Why? Because the company behind Matrix just had to cook up their own protocol instead of building on (and thus improving) existing internet standards. This is bad for interoperability and privacy.

You also seem to have trouble understanding that there can be multiple factors at play, not just a single one. I'm not arguing just privacy or just interoperability, but a combination. XMPP performs well in both while Signal performs slightly better in the first one while completely failing the second one.

Interoperability and standardization is not just a virtue, it is a necessary condition for sustainability. Unlike Signal, modern XMPP implementations have great privacy properties AND great sustainability properties.

Matrix is a much better choice than Signal since it offers provider choice, but I wouldn't be sure it's any better than XMPP in terms of usability or sustainability:

• https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/111124199813920310
• https://telegra.ph/why-not-matrix-08-07
• https://lemmy.world/post/8941217
• its ecosystem is mostly dependent on a single venture capital funded startup which currently is loosing money
• its implementations aren't compatible with the existing internet standard XMPP

You care a lot about standardization of OMEMO, yet you don't apply the same to Signal which contributes exactly nothing to any standards body.

Great. I'll check if Signal is compatible with any internet standards too. I'll tag you to celebrate a decade without interoperability.

@elonjet et al would like to have a word. Musk and free speech is a good example of preaching water and drinking wine.

You can check how often you want, it's not going to affect anyone. Please don't check more than 5 times a second maybe.

Sorry but I've been burned by WhatsApp before. Not wasting time on moving my contacts to another walled garden again. XMPP is actively developed and has most privacy features Signal does + most providers don't require a phone number and let you connect over Tor. Doing things properly and in an interoperable way takes more time but is absolutely worth it: https://snikket.org/blog/products-vs-protocols/

How regularly should I check if Signal has become an interoperable internet standard?

The military also doesn't make any revenue probably.

The Pentagon is not some rich dude with lawyers.

Yes, the XSF has a very high bar what a standard is and what not, so the many protocol extensions are labeled experimental. However that doesn't mean implementations are "incomplete" or "insecure". OMEMO has good support nowadays and the implementation in Conversations has been independently audited.