gnuhaut

The war broke out because Putin covets Ukraine and always has.

Always has? They didn't start talking about annexation till well into the invasion. In the Minsk agreement he wanted the Donbas to remain part of Ukraine, didn't even recognize the DPR/LPR right until the start of the invasion. Maybe, just maybe, they actually feel threatened by NATO encirclement, like they've been saying since basically forever, and which even prominent US politicians and foreign policy experts have been warning about. But I guess you prefer pseudo-psychological explanations to realpolitik ones. Fuck reality we got vibes!

Given this, why do you believe if the Ukrainians lay down their arms Russia wouldn’t continue doing exactly what it has been doing — trying to kill their civilian population and deport their children?

Why would they? "His army's conduct" is about par for the course. You should read about how much civilian targets the US hit during the Iraq invasion. Of course the civilians will be a lot safer once the fighting stops. The goal of this invasion is not to kill as many civilians as possible, that would look way different. The Nazis had extermination squads trailing the front just committing one huge massacre after another. They had death camps. This is not what's going on in Ukraine. Fighting age civilian men get imprisoned and "filtrated", but are usually released after a while and then allowed to get Russian passports. "Harmless" old people and women and so on aren't even filtrated. Ukrainian children are returned to their parents if/when they show up. This isn't some extermination campaign.

I already responded to this in a reply to another user:

So it’s perfectly normal to revive a slogan that was last used by fascists? I’m sure the fact that Ukraine also made Bandera a national hero and put up statues of him and named streets in his honor right around the same time that slogan made its comeback is just a coincidence? Totally innocent slogan my ass.

You might be blind in your right eye if you think this isn't some fascist shit. This is like "the swastika is an old Hindu symbol" type defense, only worse because you're ignoring the Hitler portrait right next to it.

That won't work, it's not just Putin doing this alone you know. You'd need a powerful (the most powerful, actually) faction inside the Russian state apparatus that want to just give up, and there's no real reason to think there is such a group. And no anti-war opposition has enough support to do a coup or win elections.

No defeatist is getting into power. It's not going to happen unless Lenin rises from the dead.

What? When the US attacked Iraq they obliterated the infrastructure with air strikes. Electricity was almost completely out for weeks and wasn't fully repaired for years. Water treatment failed because of the lack of electricity, causing epidemics. Lots of other civilian shit got struck as well. Iraqi infrastructure got fucked way worse than Ukraine's.

The United States never inflicted that level of destruction anywhere close to the scale of that war which has killed over 600,000 people.

Are you serious?

https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/

• Over 940,000 people have died in the post-9/11 wars due to direct war violence.

• An estimated 3.6-3.8 million people have died indirectly in post-9/11 war zones, bringing the total death toll to at least 4.5-4.7 million and counting.

Oh I do consider the Russian soldiers victims that should be helped to escape their situation.

madman

No need to figure out how or why this war broke out, Putin is simply mad. It follows from that also that you can't reason with the guy. Do you think this is a children's cartoon?

alternative for them is to die at the hands of the Russian military

You gotta explain this. Last time I checked, the civilians casualties in this war weren't that high, and civilians can and do usually stay clear of the front lines. They might even leave the country if the men were allowed to. So if they weren't soldiers, they almost certainly wouldn't die at the hands of the Russian military.

Have a good day.

Look, you can't just present an argument and then tell me not to reply.

The history of Ukrainian support of him is fairly new and is far more complicated than “we like fascists”,

I'd like to hear your arguments why worshiping the leader of an organization that took part in the Holocaust is somehow "complicated". It's not like this isn't some well-known fact. Seriously, this is obviously totally fucked. Why would you feel to need to defend this? It's not, actually, fucking complicated.

hostility so far

And whose fault is that?

If they all want to fight so bad, why are the men not allowed to leave the country? Why has Zelensky recently announced a crackdown on draft dodging? Why are there so many videos of men getting dragged kicking and screaming into vans by military ~~recruiters~~ kidnappers?

So it's perfectly normal to revive a slogan that was last used by fascists? I'm sure the fact that Ukraine also made Bandera a national hero and put up statues of him and named streets in his honor right around the same time that slogan made its comeback is just a coincidence? Totally innocent slogan my ass.

I really think "Slava Ukraini" is a fascist slogan, because it is. Since you're mad at me for pointing it out, I suspect it might be you who would get banned if you said what you really think.

In April 1941 in German-occupied Kraków, the younger part of the OUN seceded and formed its own organisation, called the OUN-B after its leader Stepan Bandera. The group adopted a fascist-style salute along with calling "Glory to Ukraine!" and responding with "Glory to the Heroes!". During the failed attempt to build a Ukrainian state on lands occupied by Germany after its invasion of the Soviet Union in June 1941, triumphal arches with "Glory to Ukraine!", along with other slogans, were erected in numerous Ukrainian cities.

Read an article some years back about someone installing Linux on a hard drive.

Not on a computer with a hard drive. On the embedded ARM core inside the hard drive. One of them anyways, I think this particular hard drive had three CPUs inside it actually.