a-man-from-earth

As egalitarians, we support equal rights for all, and that includes women as well as men. We do not support feminism, because of the widespread misandry in their theory and practice.

I disagree, tho there is some nuance.

Incels are literally involuntary celibates, which is mostly a situation outside of their control. And it doesn't say anything about their views on women. That said, many of their forums do contain a lot of misogyny.

MRAs are mostly egalitarians, so it's not right to paint them collectively as misogynists.

TRP has certain ideas that are definitely misogynistic (such as AWALT), so it applies to this group.

Black pill is even worse and paints people as being determined by their genetics. This group is misogynistic by definition.

MGTOW in itself is not misogynistic, but it is very present in their online forums.

But indeed, this post would have been better if it focused on misogyny only, which is something we strongly oppose. Instead, the discussion derailed into a discussion on feminism.

Are you having trouble reading, or are you intentionally misreading the Time article?

Look at table 1, under the 12-month heading:
1.6% of women reported rape, and 1.7% of men reported forced penetration.

Please do not gaslight us and deny that rape is not a gendered crime.

Where is the quote by Mary P. Koss?

It's easy to find on her Wikipedia page:

On the issue of male victims of rape, Koss has written: "Although consideration of male victims is within the scope of the legal statutes, it is important to restrict the term rape to instances where male victims were penetrated by offenders. It is inappropriate to consider as a rape victim a man who engages in unwanted sexual intercourse with a woman." (Koss 1993 pp 206–207). Elsewhere, she has argued that it is impossible for a woman to rape a man: "How would [a man being raped by a woman] happen… how would that happen by force or threat of force or when the victim is unable to consent? How does that happen?", adding that she would describe this as "unwanted contact".

And how would the quote of one presumably feminist author provide evidence for a systematic issue?

Because her work and her definitions are used by the APA, the CDC, the US Department of Justice, and the WHO.

Also, what do you mean by rape is not a gendered crime?

Did you gloss over this part of the article in Time?

And now the real surprise: when asked about experiences in the last 12 months, men reported being “made to penetrate”—either by physical force or due to intoxication—at virtually the same rates as women reported rape (both 1.1 percent in 2010, and 1.7 and 1.6 respectively in 2011).

In other words, if being made to penetrate someone was counted as rape—and why shouldn’t it be?—then the headlines could have focused on a truly sensational CDC finding: that women rape men as often as men rape women.

Hidden in the statistics is the finding that women rape men as often as men rape women.

Let's stop hiding male victims.

Where is your proof if you argue for it to be a scientific fact?

For example, feminist Mary P. Koss is instrumental in the sexual assault statistics published by the CDC. She redefines rape as something that cannot be done by women to men, thus burying the evidence that rape is not a gendered crime. See https://time.com/3393442/cdc-rape-numbers/

That is a systemic silencing of male issues.

Removed for personal attack.

Nah, we are much more visible here. We appear in /all, which is the default setting when clicking on the kbin logo.

Women are just human, like men,

Yes, most certainly. But I wasn't talking about women. I was talking about an ideological movement. Don't confuse women as a gender with feminism as an ideological movement. Feminists often pretend to speak for all women, but that's not how this works.

That's only the benefit of time. Back in 1848 things were very very different.

No, not really. Feminism may have refined their theories and reworded their ideas, but they still blame men in general for society's woes. It's just misandry repackaged.

See for example this very even-handed article by Cathy Young: https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/06/30/feminists-treat-men-badly-its-bad-for-feminism/

Defining contemporary feminism by those who take the stage to say stuff like "stop mansplaining", "men can't be raped", and "men should be paid less to reduce the gender pay gap", would be like defining conservatives by those who call out to "shoot immigrants at the border", "Arbeit macht frei", and "you're just a snowflake".

False equivalence, because the former are things definitely said and defended widely by feminists in positions of power. E.g. "men can't be raped" is literally what Mary P. Koss said, who is behind the statistics published by the CDC and used by for example RAINN to completely dismiss the issue of men being raped by women.

Or defining the men's rights movement by those who say "women are the problem", "she's just a plate", "you're such a soyboy".

Nobody serious within the men's rights movements says those things. Again, false equivalence. And please don't confuse TheRedPill with the men's rights movement.

As it stands, right now feminism is applied in a way that either ignores or silences men. and thus, it is anti-male.

That’s not a fact, but an interpretation.

Objection! Many men have the lived experience of our issues not being taken seriously, but rather them being dismissed. Men are often silenced, because "what about the women? Don't they have it worse?" And the dismissive "patriarchy hurts men too."

Part of the problem is also how men in those positions are treated by society. My wife went through a teaching degree, and the number of things men have to do in order to protect themselves from accusations

This is very important. There certainly are men who would love to become teachers, but many are discouraged by the very real problems of false accusations and a societal mistrust of the motivations of men who want to become teachers.

Guarantees need to be put into place that men will be treated fairly, and robust policies for handling accusations, based on the legal principle of innocent until proven guilty.

At least in most Western countries we're still in the position that one rumor can kill someone's career (especially after MeToo), and I can imagine most men deciding they do not want to risk that.

deleted as personal attack