WrittenInRed

Yeah I know it's technically visible, but unless I'm just dumb afaik the default ui doesn't have a way to easily see which mod did an action unless you manually filter by every mod it could be. Since it is possible to do that it's really not a huge deal, just something that could help prevent misunderstandings.

I've rewritten this a few times with various points I was trying to make, but for the sake of not having a wall of text I'll try to keep it short lol.

For the whole tankie discussion, I saw @LH0ezVT@sh.itjust.works mentioned imperialism, and it made me think that the whole rule should probably be reworded imo

The big thing is that it feels like the whole debate is mostly based on semantics, so that should be fixed if possible. It basically boils down to what "tankie" means or is perceived to mean. As written the rule uses ideological labels to try and represent a broader set of beliefs, but the main issue with that is that by picking those sorts of imprecise labels it sort of muddies what specific kind of beliefs the rule is trying to highlight. Especially with tankie (and even more so on Lemmy), lots of different people use it to label very different things. Even if the rules are using it "correctly", there's still enough disagreement surrounding the term overall that it seems worth it to just elaborate more specifically on what it's actually trying to refer to. Doing so helps prevent some misunderstandings that might happen between users and mods as to what is covered by this rule, means that new users who have been incorrectly called a tankie elsewhere on lemmy don't see the term and assume they'll also be banned here, and also just generally makes the rules more clear which is never a bad thing.

Maybe something like:

Support or defense of authoritarianism is not welcome.This includes but is not limited to: imperialism, nationalism, genocide denial, ethnic or racial supremacy, fascism, nazism, etc."

I feel like that covers the problematic stuff from any type of authoritarianism. Could even be safe and make it something to the effect of "Support or defense of authoritarianism, regardless of the state, is not welcome..." to make sure it's explicit.

I definitely agree with being against states/state oppression. I think the main problem is just that someone doesn't actually need to self identify as a tankie to feel excluded by the word. If someone gets a bunch of angry comments on .world calling them a tankie when they definitely aren't, then even if this community/instance is trying to use it in a different, more accurate way it still has the possibility that they would feel unwelcome here. When the prevailing way tankie gets used by the rest of Lemmy is incorrect, then that usage kinda becomes the first thing people will associate it with when they see the term somewhere else on Lemmy.

I think for official rules tankie is vague enough that it's better to just be explicit in what is actually against the rules like what's already there with the "no genocide denial" and "no authoritarianism" lines. Adding "no tankies" on top of that just leads to a less clear definition of what sort of behavior is actually against the rules imo. Since everyone has different ideas of what someone being a tankie means it's not always just the authoritarian aspects that get lumped into the definition but sometimes the leftist aspects too.

Obviously none of this is to say that authoritarianism, genocide apologia, or anything like that should be allowed. I'd just personally like the rules being more clear about that explicitly instead of muddying stuff unnecessarily by using tankie.

Polygender!

I had to look it up the first time I saw this meme too lol. Prideflags.org is super useful to try and reverse search for a prideflag. It doesn't have this one but it tends to be the first place I go to if I don't recognize a flag.

I like the anti-authoritarianism and no genocide denial rules, it's just the term tankie being used specifically that feels like the biggest issue imo. It's misused so often that it kinda ends up excluding a decent number of people. Someone doesn't need to self-identify as a tankie to feel excluded, just getting called one enough by others for expressing anything left-wing can do it. Its not that I think any of the mods here would use it to wrongly remove stuff like a .world community might, but for people who don't know as much about Lemmy/196 it wouldn't be surprising for people to assume that because they get called a tankie on world that they wouldn't be welcome here.

And definitely agreed human rights violations and genocides definitely shouldn't be defended regardless of what country did them, but I think since we already have the no genocide denial rule those should be covered anyway.

I'll also say I'm in support of removing the "no tankie" rule. I'm all for anti-authoritarianism, but with how often tankie gets misued on Lemmy at large having the rules specifically use it always kinda felt like just a potential avenue for removing general left-wing stuff. Not that it has been used for that on 196 necessarily, or that it will be in this community, but it still feels like tankie is a loaded enough term that just having more specific rules is better.

Like you said sectarianism sucks, and right now in the US at least it I'd say solidarity is more important than ideological differences. I'm super anarchist, but if a ML is also attending protests, building mutual aid, and fighting for immigrants and trans people then who am I to exclude them when currently the more support the better. (There are arguments for why this viewpoint is wrong or right, and whether solidarity with authoritarianism in fighting existing power structures is counter-intuitive or not, but it also doesn't feel like those arguments apply as much in something like 196 imo.)

(Also 100℅ agree on adding misogyny. Obviously the list of prejudices isn't exhaustive or anything but misogyny is a big one and it feels like it should definitely be there.)

I'm definitely a fan of sending a dm explaining why action was taken to the relevant user. In that sort of spirit would it be a good idea to include the username of the mod in the message for the modlog? With how hard it can be to try and figure out which mod did what action it can lead to misunderstandings, and trying to make that more transparent could be good. Would also help show if a particular mod is abusing their position or something (I don't think it's super likely you all would do that on purpose, but still).

I'm all for this, obviously the housing crisis is caused by a bunch of factors but really no one should own a second home until everyone has a first. Providing more free/affordable (and actually high quality) housing is also important, but preventing people who don't actually live somewhere from buying a house that will sit empty or be rented out to tourists for a majority of the year is a good thing and seems like a great starting point to try and tackle the airbnb problem specifically.

Good idea yeah! The 20x20 one will look a little more crunchy than the actual icon would end up, since the actual image file is still higher quality than 20x20 in terms of pixel density, its just the displayed height/width that gets smaller.

The 20x20 one will probably be closer to the same quality as the 120x120 one you posted (probably a bit more blurry), and the 120x120 size will be closer to the full quality one.

On the default lemmy ui at least, it looks like icons tend to be either ~20x20 when they're the small circle in the actual post, and 120x120 when they're in the community view as the 2 main sizes, and 24x24 also shows up in the community list section. Figured I'd mention some sizes in case it helps anyone designing an icon!

Yeah those are basically my thoughts too lol. Even if it ends up not working out the process of trying it will still be good since it'll give me more experience. Those aspects you're wary of are also definitely my 2 biggest concerns too. I think (or at least hope) that with the rules I'm thinking of for how trust is generated it would mostly positively effect behaviour? I'm imagining by "rewarding" trust to recieving positive replies, combined with a small reward for making positive replies in the first place, it would mostly just lead to more positive interactions overall. And I don't think I'd ever want a system like this to punish making a negative reply, only maybe when getting negative replies in response, since hopefully that prevents people wanting to avoid confrontation of harmful content in order to avoid being punished. Honestly it might even be better to only ever reward trust and never retract it except via decay over time, but that's something worth testing I imagine.

And in terms of gaming the system I do think that's kinda my bigger concern tbh. I feel like the most likely negative outcome is something like bots/bad actors finding a way to scam it, or the community turning into an echo chamber where ideas (that aren't harmful) get pushed out, or ends up drifting towards the center and becoming less safe for marginalized people. I do feel like thats part of the reason 196 would be a pretty good community to use a system like this though, since there's already a very strong foundation of super cool people that could be made the initial trusted group, and then it would hopefully lead to a better result.

There are examples of similar sorts of systems that exist, but it's mostly various cryptocurrencies or other P2P systems that use the trust for just verifying that the peers aren't malicious and it's never really been tested for moderation afaik (I could have missed an example of it online, but I'm fairly confident in saying this). I think stuff like the Fediverse and other decentralized or even straight up P2P networks are a good place for this sort of thing to work though, as a lot of the culture is already conducive to decentralization of previously centralized systems, and the communities tend to be smaller which helps it feel more personal and prevents as many bad actors/botting attempts since there aren't a ton of incentives and they become easier to recognize.

I've been looking at the Lemmy api and stuff, and into some existing libraries/implementations of trust networks but that's about it so far tbh. I think I'm gonna start working on some implementation later today maybe, this whole mod drama and the discussion it led to make me really want to start lol.