ValueSubtracted

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Yeah, I thought both this and the "youth movement" angle of episode two worked well.

As the cadets start venturing out into fieldwork more, they shouldn't have to make excuses quite so often. They can go find their own trouble, and Discovery will be undergoing a perpetual refit!

[–] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 18 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I think they're probably fully aware, at least amongst their leadership. They'd already been offered the planet for free, after all.

I think it was about respect, not trickery.

[–] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

The PD applies to all civilizations, but is more permissive with those that are already capable of FTL travel. When a species is out travelling the galaxy, you can interact and negotiate with them, but you can't directly interfere with their business.

Caleb is leaning hard into the "pre-warp" side of it, as many fans tend to do, which is why he said those particular regulations don't apply. He's just conveniently ignoring the rest of the PD, assuming it's still in force in the 32nd century.

Edit: I'm wrong - I was conflating Caleb's argument and the earlier debate about returning to pre-warp times. Caleb's argument isn't explained, and we funny get to hear what he's saying immediately before.

[–] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 8 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I think the debate club is exactly the place for the conversation - Vance and Starfleet are following the PD. They've made the offer, been declined, and are...well, not respecting it, but obeying it. The worst you can say about them is that they're being persistent, trying to convince someone in the Klingon leadership structure to change their mind. That may be a little obnoxious, but I don't think it violates any Starfleet principles to give it a shot.

That leaves the cadets to debate whether respecting the Klingons' wishes is a good thing in this case, and I don't think there's any indication that the debate has any weight to it - it's not going to affect Federation foreign policy.

I liked that "good" debaters tended to fall back on Federation law and Starfleet regulations, whereas the message is to continue to treat people with respect to their culture and identity (even if that identity is sometimes muddled).

it’s the obvious solution, and they should have thought of it so much earlier.

I do agree, but (a) Starfleet's pretty out of practice with this stuff, and we saw in the premiere just how black-and-white they became during the Burn, and (b) if it doesn't work out...well, you've got a botched "Vulcan Hello" on your hands, which isn't great.

Respectfully, I think this is a bit of a retcon of the retcon.

"The Wounded" makes it seem like a fairly major conflict - certainly more than just "peacekeeping."

Jay-Den has been a breakout character for me, so I'm looking forward to this one.

And yeah, it'll be good to check in with the Klingons in the 32nd century.

I've been sitting on an essay concept for a few years now, all about how TNG was secretly (and unintentionally) about the end of an era of peace, and the Federation being shocked out of complacency.

The retconned Cardassian war (and to a lesser extent, the Tzenkethi conflicts) is the biggest challenge to address, but their very existence kind of supports the underlying notion that things were never as good as is popularly believed.

All of which is neither here nor there, and I think your point is a good one.

[–] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 11 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Honestly the point of the article seems to be that changing canon is secondary to telling a really compelling sci-fi allegory story.

I think that's exactly the point, and it's one that is often disregarded.

And to be honest, the sudden retcon of the Cardassian wars is not very easy to square with the way the Federation was presented in early TNG, existing in an era of unprecedented peace. "Contradiction" might be a stretch, but it's inconsistent.

I would, yes - it's got the majority of the info.

[–] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 1 points 2 months ago (2 children)

The majority of the lore comes from the TNG episode - the Discovery season mostly deals with a hunt for the Progenitors' lost technology, with the main revelation being that the Progenitors had found it, not invented it, so the original life-giving entities remain unknown.

[–] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 4 points 2 months ago (10 children)

They did address this to an extent, way back in TNG's "The Chase" - the TL;DR is that most sapient life in the galaxy was seeded by an ancient race, and therefore have some common ancestry. This was expanded upon somewhat in Discovery's fifth season.

 

Written by: Russell T Davies

Directed by: Dylan Holmes Williams

 

"The Deep"

Written by: Pete McTighe

Directed by: Dylan Holmes Williams


"The Witch of the Waterfall"

Written by: Russell T Davies & Pete McTighe

Directed by: Dylan Holmes Williams

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