Tonava

Of course we have responsibilities; but those are set by us - if I say something is terrible, that too must come from the perspective of human morality, since good and evil are human concepts as well. These things don't exist in nature, but we do. It is completely arrogant of us to think we'd have some sort of privilege to see ourselves separate from nature, or to know what is best for other beings, just because we are capable of what we call morality. We can live by our values and by our responsibilities, but thinking that having those somehow gives us rights over nature or more value than animals, is what has basically led to this twisted system in the first place.

On rape I somewhat disagree; it is not a necessary part of animal agriculture - but it sure as hell is a part of our industrial farming, part of the torture we're doing. And we do have sex with each other all the time just like animals, otherwise humans wouldn't exist. Or are you talking about bestiality? That is usually an abnormality among mammals in general, so that can be used to support the argument that what we're doing and allowing to happen is terrible.

But they do exist. We can’t instantly change that. And some will be used for meat, we also can’t change that. So we start by trying to make more intelligent decisions, reducing societies exploitation of meat animals, and helping people understand why this is good.

Exactly this. If our choices are keeping our personal moral purity or reducing harm to minimize animal suffering and destruction of nature, I obviously choose the latter. Who cares about what's wrong or right over trying to actively stop this ecological disaster we're doing? Eating meat is socially acceptable right now, do we like it or not. Getting people to side against that is an uphill battle that won't be won by being actively hostile about it.

Did you not read what I just wrote? By claiming we are worse than any predator just because of killing for food, you are argumenting we're not part of the nature; that we're some special creature. We're not. You call animals beasts; why? What's so beastly about them that we don't have it? Are you not putting them below yourself by differentiating us to have some superior qualities? They're equal to you, to me. Having the ability to make choices that we perceive they can't doesn't give us any more or less value than they have.

Torturing on a mass scale, ignoring animal suffering, thinking we're above them, and destroying the nature while doing it, is our sin, our problem. But we have the right to kill and eat them if any predatory animal has that right too. That doesn't mean we should kill them, and that certainly doesn't mean we should torture them in incomprehensible ways we do right now. Free will is another argument entirely, but our moral concepts don't exist outside human experience. They're as real as we make them to be; but still, I am not arguing about that, I am arguing about the value of living animals and us - because you are using a quote about that as an argument.

I don't know do you really care about nature or animals, but at least stop actively harming their cause by virtue signaling and confirming people's negative feelings about vegans by acting like a prick online. You can just hate humans and say so; this is the internet, you can say whatever and you can get into arguments without having to pretend there's some nobler cause for it. Who am I to judge, when I'm taking part in this discussion as well? It's not like I personally have much love towards humanity either.

Predators killing prey is part of the natural order; arguing that we're worse for killing for food than any other predators is, is exactly putting us on a pedestal above every other animal. We're not some special beings above everything, where if we kill a sheep, we're somehow better or worse than a wolf doing it is.

It is not the killing for food that is the problem, it is torturing animals and the ecological impact we're causing with it. Mass producing meat, eggs, anything, by tormenting other living creatures without any consideration they're equally living beings, and destroying ecosystems for it, causing the climate to warm faster... and on top of it all - doing it all voluntarily and knowingly! That makes us monstrous on a scale no other animal has reached.

It could be argued predators playing with food is natural as well; is a cat evil for toying with a mouse? is an orca evil for playing with a seal before eating it? It's just the scope we're talking about is so, so much bigger. We're not killing things ourselves; we've pushed the murder factories out of our sight and minds, and casually consume "products" instead of thinking we're eating something valuable; something that deserves respect even when it's dead.

I have no problem with anyone eating an animal if they have not tortured it or taken part in allowing it's torture; and especially not if they're the one that killed it. That's just how it works in this cursed planet, we kill, we eat, we get eaten. I also have no problem with anyone refusing to take part in it, and considering it horrible practice; it is. It's horrendous. Life is horrible, horrible thing full of suffering and decay. If you can choose it is better for the environment and usually for your health to not kill and eat what you killed.

What I do take issue with is acting like humans are not part of the nature. We are part of it all. We're just like a wolf, or a sheep; all living, breathing things, doing beautiful things, doing horrible things. Killing and eating. All the same. You are not above (nor below) every other living animal for what you eat or what you do not, and I'm sick and tired of people pretending to argue we're worse just to put us on a pedestal, while doing nothing to actually stop the torture of animals.

Listaan on muuten lipsahtanut pieni kirjoitusvirhe: !NiceMemes@sopuli.xyz ohjautuu väärin koska lukee NiceNemes

It's a stress reaction instinct thing if someone reading this didn't know already. Something like "they're not going to survive anyway, better use the resources myself to be able to escape and make more". Many mammals kill their own young when stressed, I theoretize it could be somewhat behind post-partum depression as well since that can create strong feelings about how you have to kill your baby

I don't see a problem with being public and having limiting rules - it's perfectly fine for women or minority groups to have their own spaces - but never before have I seen such an odd approach to moderating. I too tumbled on one of their threads from ALL and it felt like at least third of the comments there was responded with, paraphrasing, "please never post again". If every discussion reaching ALL gets like that, I'd imagine it would be easier to figure out some other solution, since it takes such insane amount of effort to go through so many comments and probably profiles and posting history to know who to reply that to, from moderating perspective. Or are they just saying that to everyone? Or everyone not subbed?? I doubt that many people getting answered with "please never post again" would want to join even if they did qualify...

It's just... I don't understand the logistics of all that

While I would say that the language barrier is squing things a little

To go on a tangent from this; this is literally the problem I'm constantly struggling with tech stuff. I am not fully illiterate in things (I've build my desktop, I've booted from USB, I've done quite interesting things with php etc. etc. small stuff) but I'm also not on a "Lemmy level", for example never installed or used Linux, I don't know Rust, nor do I understand a lot of the talks here.

But; English is my second language, and I've never had any formal schooling in IT. There are a lot of tech words that do not translate literally into my native language. So if I want to understand something, searching for things is an absolute nightmare. I often don't know the English term, and I usually don't know the proper tech term for it in my native language either. Translating doesn't help since translators don't understand the terminology but will translate literally, which again, doesn't help in either direction. So I'm left guessing and trying to piece things together based on vague descriptions by people who understand what they're talking about and expect the reader to understand as well.

On top of that the FUCKING SEO has made everything so much worse since trying to search anything with the word "optimizing" will only yield completely irrelevant things about SEO. I hate it I hate I hate it

I got autism diagnosis as an adult mostly because of my long struggle with depression and physical health problems. Having the official diagnosis helps when interacting with health care; it is a confirmation that my needs differ from a neurotypical and they have to act accordingly. Now I can point to the diagnosis whenever needed, so they don't for example try to force stuff on me that just won't work (like group therapy).

Also good to remember the only time you have is right now; get that tattoo or start hrt. Who knows if tomorrow ever comes

I went insane already in the early 2000s, when I realised nobody gave a shit about climate change and ecological destruction and nothing I could say or do made people understand or care. I had a good chuckle when the whole Greta-thing happened and suddenly more people cared, even though we've known this is happening for decades now. Too little, too late. There's always war and genocide going, now we just know it's happening in real time. Knowing changes nothing, we don't learn from history, too few care and those who do get in power too rarely for any lasting change to happen.

I was about to kill myself for the first time in 2013 and honestly I should just have done it, it's the decision I now regret the most in my life. I already died that day anyway, I have just been sort of lingering remnant after that, barely a person anymore. At least my parents could have had a decade to grieve me, now I've just dragged more people to care about me and will hurt them as well with my death. My suffering has just gotten worse and worse together with my physical and mental health; sometimes thing not only don't get better, but just get worse. I don't even know how I'm still here, probably just out of spite and lack of access to handguns. Eventually I'll get to see what will manage to end me first, my body or my mind, I don't even know which one is leading the race.

To conclude my insane and personal rant: not everyone can get a happy ending. Enjoy and do good if you still can

Befriending wild animals on their terms is awesome, no matter are they slugs, deer or birds. I've been bribing the neighbourhood corvids for about three years now, and gotten a few friends.