Prunebutt

joined 2 years ago
[–] Prunebutt@feddit.de 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (7 children)

If you dilute the definition of the state so much that it loses all its' characteristics, then anything can be a state, correct. If anything collective can be a state, then my gardening association is a state. Time to print ourown money and declare our garden sovereign territory. /s

My preferred definition of a state is the institution which pacifies class tensions with a monopoly on violence. Another definition I like is based on David Graeber and David Wengrow, in which a modern state combines power over people through violence (police and military), control of knowledge (bureaucracy) and persuation (people believe in states, therefore they work). Neither of these kinds of states are necessary to have a democratic society which makes decisions from the bottom up, instead of top-down.

You claim that thinking things through leads to "dishonesty inherent in the ideology". Yst, you fail to bring up any examples. Just because you lack creativity, doesn't mean you've disproven that basic democracy doesn't work. People wouldn't vote for "absolutely everything", but people who are affected by political decisions have a say in those decisions, proportional to how much they're affected. If I don't care about something, I won't vote on it. Easy as that.

And think of what you're advocating: The "private unit" you're describing is de facto a dictator. No one voted for my boss. Yet they can make any decision without hearing any of the workers out. It is an opt-out dictatorship, yes. But given how much I need that specific job, opting out could mean that I can't pay my rent to the appartment-dictator. Opting out of that tenancy dictatorship would mean that I don't have any shelter and probably get harrassed by cops.

I'm not sure that my ideology is the dishonest one, to be frank.

[–] Prunebutt@feddit.de 1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

You yourself explained why in reality it doesn't work that way. Bakunin was proven right by history. The state is a tool for pacifying class tensions with violence. That is Marx's own definition.

That a single party rule is necessary is fan fiction by Lenin. Even Marx himself disliked the vanguardist tendencies or the people calling themselves "Marxist".

Communism doesn't need Marx. A classless, moneyless society according to the paradime "To each according to their needs, from each according to their ability" (i.e.: communism) existed way before Marx, for example in indigenous American tribes. Socialism is described as the workers owning the means of production. If the state owns the MOP, the workers' property relations mean squat.

Marx additionally was proven wrong in his claim that the peasantry can't be a revolutionary class with the Catalonian revolution. Who introduced proper socialism without a state-aparatus.

[–] Prunebutt@feddit.de 0 points 2 years ago (13 children)

Socialism doesn't rely on any state. The workers who actuallyedo labour in the means of production should own them. Because if "the state" (or rather:some bureaucrat) owns the means of production, you'd have the exact same property structure as in capitalism. More specifidally: state capitalism.

Stop believing that BS that the USSR was actually socialist after the Bolsheviks seized power. That was sirply state propaganda that both the Kremlin and Washington each used for their own narrative.

And there are more ways to have democracy than representative democracy. A decentralized democratic structure of communes with delegates instead of representatives would be way more democratic than any current "democracy" of the western world.

Socialism without a state should be the goal.

[–] Prunebutt@feddit.de 1 points 2 years ago

What planet do you live on?

[–] Prunebutt@feddit.de 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

And that's why Bakunin was right from the very beginning.

[–] Prunebutt@feddit.de 13 points 2 years ago (3 children)

If I'd use this service, it'd have to be self-hosted.

I already don't like how centralized signal is. Adding another service I'd need to trust in the middle doesn't make it better.

[–] Prunebutt@feddit.de 30 points 2 years ago

The Princess Bride

[–] Prunebutt@feddit.de 8 points 2 years ago (2 children)

The American genocide wasn't as thorough as you think it was.

[–] Prunebutt@feddit.de 6 points 2 years ago (5 children)

I know, this might sound crazy, but: Listening to the native Americans?

[–] Prunebutt@feddit.de 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

This is not about the dictionary, but about historical movements/strains of thought. The french "socialisme libertaire" is the term they used in 18th century France. And libertarian socialism aims for the freedom of all people from rulers.

Edit: Found a source

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