Mshuser

joined 2 years ago
[–] Mshuser@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (26 children)

What would be your suggestion for being less combative? I have a tendency to over-explain my position so the context doesn't get misconstrued but perhaps there's a better way of having a discussion.

It's not just about the sex though, it's about being treated as less than human due to an over-heightened fear of men. I referenced her video to mostly address the last point and how what I've said would lead to this. I don't care if a woman is not down to have sex with me that's her choice.

Stalking does exist. I didn't include as it's not part of the normal social context I was painting earlier. Stalking happens when someone who you don't know or have little familiarity with is following you, so there's no way to include it nor excuse it. And then there's stalking from someone who you've known before but now is a stranger to you which is a much more difficult situation to deal with.

I specified those situations because A) these are the types of situations where potential predators are likely to take advantage and B) I've also acknowledge many of these are just suggestions from me as a man. These are also suggestions mentioned by women I have spoken with. Are they perfect? No. Do we need better solutions? Absolutely, we do. I also understand that these are very difficult situations to deal with, which is why even the suggestions I'm giving aren't always bullet-proof when they do happen (and same goes for men who experience false allegations or abuse as well, you can record it and back it up, doesn't mean it's not a difficult situation to be in), but it doesn't justify the fear of almost every guy out there which I have seen time and time again. I could've done a better job of not making dealing with those situations sound easy peasy while making my point.

[–] Mshuser@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago (28 children)

The title is not me asking anything, it's a title of the video I linked to. Caitlyn V is the one who came up with it, not me.

Of course safety is a very legitimate concern, but it's been something that's been used to justify very distant behaviour and misandric treatment of men, especially when you look at statistics where it's only a very few men (who are repeat offenders btw) that are out there committing them (both reported and unreported incidents), yet people use these statistics to act as if a large majority of men are out there committing crimes which isn't true. There are situations where safety does apply, but when it's used to act as if every man is a potential offender in every normal interaction, that's when it becomes a problem.

For example, if a man were to come up to you and say hi, express interest or compliment you (in any context that isn't an isolated alleyway mind you), and your first instinct is to be distant from him, treat him as if all he wants is sex, or might murder or rape you in an initial meet, then that is overboard. Crime stats from nisvs and bjs shows they happen roughly 10% of the time in most incidents. The high likelihood of sex crimes happening is with someone they are familiar with. Still not large enough to treat as if every friend or romantic interest out there is gonna do it when you factor in the general male population.

Also, men make up majority of homicide victims even at the hands of other men, but even when we're talking about gendered violence in intimate settings, the rates of gender violence from female to male isn't that far apart from male to female yet that never gets talked about at all. Then there's also false allegations which are common enough yet it's still not legally recognized as a crime. Not enough men come out to share their stories due to public ridicule and even being seen as the bad guy, nor are men's issues being taken seriously by academia to be given a deeper look apart from government stats. Safety goes both ways my guy. But even with stats like this, you have to be careful not to apply this to all men and women (when you actually factor in the total male & female population, you find the number of offenders out there in a general context is less than 1% for both genders). Just because most crime offenders are men doesn't mean most men are out here committing crimes. I will link this post for you to see.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CrQRpqUtbDz/

If you're talking about just talking to her, expressing interest, flirting, getting her contact information etc especially in public social environments, you're less likely to get assaulted in there. I'd go as far as to say that women have met men when they cold approach them when it was still a thing years ago and their relationships are just fine. What safety measures can you take here? Well if you're talking to a man at a bar, don't let him buy you a drink to avoid having it drugged, which doesn't mean you're not interested as you're still there talking to him. Likewise, if you meet a man on a street, keep your interactions in public and never engage him if there's a considerable distance between you and the public so your cries for help will be heard in case he tries something (tho meeting someone on the street is not something I would advice as safety concerns are pretty high here). Or if you fear he won't take rejection well, just give him a number even a fake one and gtfo of there. Or you just don't wanna talk to him or deal with another guy. You don't have to engage him at all if all you want to do is cut it short and leave, completely understandable. In all these interactions, make sure you have an open exit if you want out.

Going on a date with him? Inform your friends and keep your dates in the eye of public and exert your boundaries in case he wants to take you private. Afriad he might rape you when you guys get intimate? Set a recorder to record the interaction, let your friends know. In both cases where things get bad, pepper spray or attacking him in the genital area. Of course all of these are suggestion and the women themselves know these situations well enough to prepare for them. My point is you can engage openly with men while at the same time keeping your safety in mind.

Point is you can factor what could happen in these situations where you could be harmed in anyway, then come up with solutions to help counter them, but at the same time not need to fear of every man and live in perpetual fear of them constantly.

[–] Mshuser@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago

Why do you say that?

[–] Mshuser@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I respect your choice. This is moreso for people that want to have some form of control over their sex lives.

[–] Mshuser@kbin.social 2 points 2 years ago

You're right it shouldn't. Men can absolutely find happiness and contentment through other men's. My point wasn't even about compliments, it was about addressing the other side of desirability that the original post talks about. Women do give out compliments to men as nothing more than a compliment, but how many of them take an active role in making a man feel wanted, making him feel like he's being seduced and pursued by her? This is the bit I was talking about.

[–] Mshuser@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago

100% agree with this. I have a personal qualifier. Whenever I talk to a woman and I get body language signals that indicate she doesn't want to talk to me or isn't interested in this conversation, or maybe she's just shy. What I would do is bring up the matter in an empathetic way and basically verbally gauge if she wants to talk or not. Now we're not entitled to a response to any question we ask and that's totally fine, but I believe approaching it this way qualifies women who verbalize their comfort with us rather than expecting us to read into the situation. So if she doesn't respond to that question the minute we bring it up, that tells us what we need to know about her communication style, and whether we as men want to engage with that or not.

As for the gentler guy situation, I written a recent article with solutions that I believe would help the gentler guy out. Lemme know what you think.

[–] Mshuser@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (2 children)

The only signal I consider to be valid is consent for sex

Yup, and I'd also add if you're out her doing say cold approaches, then reading signals also applies here as well. Other than that, if we're talking about women showing interest, she needs to use their words cuz chances are, I may not even notice her if she's sending them, making me more likely to go for someone I am attracted to. It's only natural.

That is nonsense

Yea sometimes I get the feeling when they talk about men's issues, it's done in a way it talks about men's toxic behaviour being cause by not being more like women or some shit like that

[–] Mshuser@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago

I don't know much about Jordan Peterson. I had help from other figures before I discovered peterson personally. Aba and preach I've seen a lot of their channels and I like how nuanced they are with their takes. Of course I don't agree with all of them, but they were the first dudes who got me on the right mental track.

[–] Mshuser@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago

I don't know much about Jordan Peterson. I had help from other figures before I discovered peterson personally. Aba and preach I've seen a lot of their channels and I like how nuanced they are with their takes. Of course I don't agree with all of them, but they were the first dudes who got me on the right mental track.

[–] Mshuser@kbin.social 2 points 2 years ago

I'm starting to realize that even in the localized leftist communities we're involved, we need to start creating spaces where men can freely talk about these issues in a leftist environment. Unfortunately, we don't have much power to be open with it in our own communities due to how they'll react. Even more dangerous when they're brainwashed by ideas of men that make them automatically distrustful of men, even at the start.

[–] Mshuser@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago
  1. The patriarchy has never existed in north American history. Most of the gendered oppression have been caused by the monarchy, specifically coverture practices. We had kings and queens (both of whom who have equal powers to create laws before it got taken away). You're also using the apax fallacy to judge men as a whole by the actions of a few men and women in power who are in the minority. The only reason we consider it a patriarchy is due to patriarchy theory (most positions in power are held by men, therefore men oppress women) which is not only rooted in apax fallacy, it's designed to encourage misandry on a societal level.

  2. Feminism has never been about equality. Many 'proto-feminists' such as Mary Wollstonecraft who actually written books about the rights of women and men never called herself a feminist. It was academic feminists from 1848 and onwards who claimed them as such. The ideology of feminism where it classifies men as the oppressor class of women (thanks Elizabeth cady staton) and developing concepts such as the patriarchy theory (kate miller, andrea dworkin and the like) that IS misandry, yet it gaslight everyone into thinking it's about equality.

"Men saying "it's not fair" rings hollow when men have been oppressing women for millennia, and all women want is to be treated equally." Rich people in power have been oppressing everybody else for millennia of history, it just shows up differently based on gender. That's how these things have always been.

view more: ‹ prev next ›