LadyAutumn

Its working, horrifyingly. In several communities lately ive seen moderators start to treat violent racism and antisemitism as personal beliefs that do not on their own necessitate banning. This in private progressive leaning communities too. Eugencist christian white nationalism is becoming a normal tolerated ideology to have.

Instagram is especially bad too. I see a lot of people talking about Twitter, but not enough about Instagram.

We don't have to talk in hypothetical. The democratic party ran on a campaign of kicking immigrants out of the country, continuation of the declining state of late stage capitalism, and state sponsored slaughter of Palestinian children overseas.

They could have not done that. Its as simple as that. Straight forward. They could have run a campaign standing up for human rights and a platform of workers rights. Thats it. Thats the problem. The problem is a far right conservative party vs a fascist party and those are the only 2 parties. Democrats lost the election. If they had campaigned differently, they wouldn't have lost. Demand better from politicians, not for people to vote for the murder of their own families.

Wild how in one breath you call for a complex nuanced web of cause and effect for why voting for Harris was a morally good choice despite her committing genocide, then in the next breath absolve of her of all responsibility for her defeat 😂 you are the exact reason the democratic party loses again and again and again. You are either a truly passionate neoliberal conservative who genuinely believes in the democratic party platform of western colonialism and unbounded American capitalism, or else you are so horrified by the prospect of actually doing anything to change the system that you'd actually vote for a fascist candidate if the democratic party ran with one.

How can you absolve Harris of all responsibility for her own loss when she campaigned on far right anti-immigration politics and literal genocide?? You seriously don't believe she could've done anything differently to not lose the election? Youre furious some Palestinian Americans wouldn't vote for her because she enthusiastically pledged to participate in the genocide of their people, but youre not mad at her for enthusiastically pledging to participate in genocide in the first place? Are you a zionist? I'm starting to think none of what you have to say makes any sense unless you yourself are a zionist.

If dems run a fascist next election against Trump, the trend has been "they move right we move right" since the Reagan administration, are you gonna vote for them? Will you speak up? Will you say "the blue antisemite is better than the red one"? Do you have any moral values whatsoever? Is your only moral qualm with Donald Trump that he's crass?

You do you, and keep on punching down on those Palestinian Americans. You know, with an attitude like you've got you could probably swing that into a lucrative career at ICE. They love people who devote themselves to punching down on the marginalized.

Right, which the Harris campaign did by being more committed to zionism than to keeping Donald Trump out of power. Similarly to how she completely eschewed a working class first platform in favor of appealing to corporate sponsors. Maintaining American capitalism was more important to the Harris campaign than keeping Donald Trump out of power. That's all her. No one did that to her.

Correct. She is at fault in this situation for being an enthusiastic supporter of genocide. Not the Palestinian Americans who demanded better from the democratic party.

Okay were going in circles but sure I will reiterate again, why not. Its incredible you can repeat it so many times and still not see how you're just punching down on Palestinian Americans at this point for literally no reason but western spite towards an ethnic minority group.

1. The election is over. Your rage at them is based on a hypothetical alternate reality that does not and cannot exist.

2. An equally possible hypothetical alternate reality is one where Kamala denounced Israel for committing the Palestinian genocide and committed to ending American involvement in the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.

3. In that hypothetical reality the people who wouldn't vote for her due to her support of genocide would have instead voted for her.

It is therefore ludicrous that your best possible solution to this situation is for the genocide to persist but for Palestinian Americans to vote for it to continue. Instead of Kamala changing her stance of enthusiastic support for genocide. Which she could've done at any time. And which would've gotten all those people to vote for her. Your rage should be directed at her placing support for Zionism over the defeat of a fascist candidate. It was more important to her that the Palestinian genocide continued than it was for Donald Trump to lose the election.

And, again, the election is over. We could have had a "no genocide" candidate if Kamala Harris had chosen to do so. So ill ask again, why are you spitting at Palestinian Americans for refusing to support someone participating in the ethnic cleansing of their people, instead of the woman who refused to commit to ending American participation in the Palestinian genocide? If she had done that, those people would have voted for her.

We're talking about hypotheticals in either case. Your rage is fixated solely on people who wouldn't vote for her because of her support for the Palestinian genocide, instead of at her for supporting it in the first place. It doesn't make any sense. The end outcome wouldve been those people voting for her in either hypothetical scenario, so why are you so angry at them and not her when she had just as much of a say in this situation?

I mean I'm not really referring to the specifics of her station presiding over the senate but she was the second most powerful political figure in the Biden administration. Directly involved in the national security council (which would have definitely meant her involvement in decision making with regards to the Palestinian genocide). The Vice President also often provides ideological support to the president in functions of state. She more than had a platform to speak out if she thought what Israel was doing was wrong. She couldn't his overrule his executive authority, but she was not under an obligation to support and agree with his actions in participating in the Palestinian genocide.

Nor was she obligated to campaign on continuing that genocide.

Giving money and arms to a genocidal state, yes, i would define as participating in genocide. Much like I would say companies who manufactured weapons used in past genocides did commit acts of genocide, even if they are not personally pulling the trigger.

The extent to which her direct involvement happened is debatable. Ill agree it is somewhat ceremonial but it isnt entirely and theres no way over the course of a year she was never at any point involved in the politics surrounding the genocide in Gaza. Providing ideological support for genocide can also be argued to be participating in it. "Israel has a right to defend itself." Is a simple statement made by a citizen, an endorsement of zionism and of genocide. On the scale of a powerful political figure (vp of the US is more powerful in terms of direct political power than the leaders of many nations) it is actively participating in genocide, or committing it. I don't draw a major distinction between the Nazis who wrote Der Stürmer and the SS. They were both pieces of an industry of genocide. In the same way I would argue the administration of Joe Biden was a major component of the industry of Palestinian genocide.

You can argue the nuances of this, sure. She also outright stated her intention to support the genocide going forward. If she hadn't already participated in genocide (doubtful) then unless you believe she had a secret hidden agenda of Palestinian liberation she would certainly have participated in it after being elected.

You are really tieing yourself up in knots to justify why its fine for you to continue to support a woman who committed genocide.

Again, why is so much of your ire and criticism directed at people criticizing her and not Kamala herself? You realize that if she had stopped passionately endorsing genocide and had chosen to stand with the Palestinians then those same people would have voted for her? So in one case youre demanding that many people vote for someone committing genocide against their people, and in the other we are demanding that a political party stop committing genocide. Why, in this situation, is the focus of this vitriol you feel directed at the former and not the latter?

No one here has been talking about voting for Trump, least of all me.

No seriously I want to know why your beef is with people protesting genocide and not the people committing it. Explain it. Election is over, I'm not talking about this from the perspective of voting. Election was over an eternity ago at this point. Why are you presently spitting at Palestinian Americans who refused to vote for Kamala and not Kamala herself for participating in genocide against Palestinians?

Yes my 2 year old account with a long, long history of criticizing the democratic party and more broadly western liberalism is a bot account. 🙄

Mhm yeah and the whole year when Kamala and Joe could've stopped the genocide they did... sorry remind me what Joe Biden did while he was president and Israel was like "hey were gonna start massacring children and starving entire populations to death" ? Was it that he spreads their propaganda and hoaxes on an international stage for them? Was it that he continuously interfered with the ICC and the UN from doing ANYTHING to stop the genocide? Was it that he gave them all the money and guns and bombs they could ever dream of? Was it that he forced American universities to Crack down on anti zionist protests? Was it that he advocated essentially the same position as Donald Trump and was also very close personal friends with one of the most vile racists who's ever lived Netanyahu?

Remind me, did they stop the Palestinian genocide when they had the presidency? Or did it not literally start and flourish under them, while they kept it safe from any interference and fed the genocidal militias.