HayadSont

joined 3 months ago
[–] HayadSont@discuss.online 2 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

I don’t remember how exactly this happened, but killswitch option in Linux ProtonVPN client somehow got broken in a way that I couldn’t connect to internet at all because killswitch was activated and couldn’t disable killswitch at the same time, I had to create another user and remove previous one. It also bombarded me with some errors regarding “kdewallet” that I don’t understand. Worth noting, I’ve been using this client with killswitch on many Gnome distros before and never had this issue anywhere else.

FWIW, the thing with killswitch it not due to Bazzite, nor KDE. There's a f*ck load of user reports all over the internet with different systems that have experienced the same thing; e.g. this one by a GNOME user on Pop!_OS. As for your criticism on kdewallet, I was also bothered by it the last few times I engaged with KDE Plasma. I suppose I was doing something wrong. Regardless, it was an unpleasant experience.

[–] HayadSont@discuss.online 3 points 1 month ago

I'm curious, what exactly makes Bazzite a gaming-focused distribution? Like, it comes with Steam preloaded, I'm guessing, are there other aspects to it?

As you correctly guessed already, indeed, Steam is included by default. Beyond that, we got some of the usual suspects:

  • A lot of other OOTB enabling (like e.g. OOTB Nvidia driver support, controller support etc) that one might like on a system used for gaming
  • The use of another kernel + scheduler (and probs more) for improved gaming performance
  • Depending on the image you install, you get Steam Gaming Mode OOTB; i.e. the UI found on the Steam Deck
  • It's perfectly suited for the console experience, because of how seamless everything works by virtue of the automatic updates in the background + updates being atomic + built-in rollback functionality + the amount of control the bootc model gives for image management to the image maintainers

It does a whole lot more than that, but the above should probs suffice.

I used to distro-hop a bit back in the late 00s, and while it was fun to see what the different distributions bundled and whatnot, it never felt like something was particularly suited for one thing or another.

Hmm..., FWIW, Ubuntu Studio has been around since 2007. I suppose it's basically the same idea, but directed towards creative use rather than gaming.

I'm now on OpenSuSE Tumbleweed, and it's just... Linux, I guess? I play games on it, VR, what have you, and it does what I want it to.

To be clear, Bazzite can perfectly work as a general use computer; especially for those that appreciate the bootc model but would like to consume it through a popular 'image'.

[–] HayadSont@discuss.online 1 points 1 month ago

Immutable structure creates difficulties for customization (more applicable to desktop systems than handhelds/custom consoles).

FWIW, it seems that 2/3 of Bazzite's user base uses it (primarily) as a game console anyways.

[–] HayadSont@discuss.online 4 points 1 month ago

I will agree with you that Desktop Linux leaves a lot to be desired from a security perspective. But, I'm not sure if these are its biggest problems.

Not all distros ship SELinux and the ones that do, don’t actually configure it securely.

Is SELinux employed on Desktop Linux the very same way we find on Android? Unfortunately, no. So, there's definitely a ton of mileage to be had here. But, there's literally nothing that stops you from making a fortress out of it. So, the ones that are intimately familiar with SELinux will leverage it to perfectly suit their needs. Which, is the only truly sensible way one should use SELinux to lock their system. Being dictated by the defaults set by the distro is only a counterproductive exercise of comparing/contrasting threat models.

New users are expected to keep copying and pasting commands from their browsers to their terminal which compromises some Linux security defenses.

They're absolutely not expected to do so. What makes you even think that's the case?

KDE, GNOME and Sway are the only functional Desktop Environments/Window Managers that support Wayland all, while the Other DEs are not even close to shipping with Wayland.

This is your best point. I agree that other DEs should haste in supporting Wayland. Though, at least I find solace in GNOME and KDE Plasma being the most used DEs/WMs to begin with. Hence, even if only those two would support Wayland, we would still have allowed over half of Linux' users to choose Wayland.

Most if not all of the Linux Distros in 2025 ship with Grub bootloader, which suffers from a lot of problems, instead of using the bootloaders that does not support BIOS and will improve the reliability of booting and provide a more stable experience.

Sorry, I'm not familiar with this problem/issue. Would you please be so kind to explain why I (or anyone else, for that matter) should worry about this? Like, what "problems" are we talking about? How is (allegedly) GRUB not reliable or stable compared to the others?


Btw, just curious, what are your thoughts on secureblue?

[–] HayadSont@discuss.online 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I’ve heard it has poor long term stability.

Relatively speaking, sure. But I'd argue this is by design. Basically, every 'modern' distro is trying to solve the problem that come with updates on an 'open'/'free' operating system. The solution they come up with essentially dictates a huge part of the identity of the distro. As I've noted elsewhere, these include the following:

  • Some choose to outright freeze packages and only come with security updates
  • Others have (almost) excessive testing to prevent breakage
  • Yet others employ rollbacks to ensure that the (eventual/inevitable) breakage can easily be deflected
  • Finally, there are distros that fall on a spectrum in regards to their more radical state management in hopes of minimizing breakage
  • (Though, I'm sure I've forgotten some other methods...)
  • And, of course, we find combinations of the above employed on the very same distro/system

And, of course, we shouldn't forget to mention Arch's approach; lay the responsibility on the user 😅. So, Arch 'breaking'/'borking' after an update is a user error. Which other distro can tout such an impressive entry in their documentation for system maintenance?

To be fair, this makes total sense. The user can basically build their system from scratch. So..., why wouldn't they be capable to come up with their solution to the above problem? Besides, the ArchWiki continues to be a guiding light whatever solution they'd like to adopt: be it 'freezing' the kernel, or using better tested software, perhaps setting up Snapper for rollbacks etc...

Is there a distro that’s like Arch for installation but more stable?

Gentoo

[–] HayadSont@discuss.online 2 points 1 month ago

Well articulated reply. Thank you!

[–] HayadSont@discuss.online 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Any place where I can follow its development?

[–] HayadSont@discuss.online 1 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Isn’t Bazzite built on Fedora Silverblue

Kinda.

installs the Steam Flatpak?

Actually no. Bazzite installs Steam from the RPM Fusion repo.

As for an attempt to shed light on why Fedora is absent from Steam's numbers, see this comment. Finally, perhaps this is worth looking into to see how big Fedora's gaming community is compared to the rest of its users.

[–] HayadSont@discuss.online 5 points 1 month ago

Unfortunately, based on what I saw on the Proton website, if I want to use it on linux it looks like the only way is to get it on Ubuntu, Debian, or Fedora using the console.

For official support, yes. Thankfully, ProtonVPN is also available as a flatpak. As such, any distro that allows installing (unverified) flatpaks through its GUI software store suffices. Though, not all distros are created equally in this respect. Focusing on Kubuntu and Linux Mint specifically:

[–] HayadSont@discuss.online 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

My pleasure fam! Btw, I'm in no place to dictate what's right or wrong (or whatsoever). I just wanted to add their perspective on the matter*.

[–] HayadSont@discuss.online 2 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Article by a Red Hat engineer that also makes a ton of contributions to FOSS in their free time: Don't change your login shell, use a modern terminal emulator

[–] HayadSont@discuss.online 3 points 1 month ago

Not OP, but when I cold turkey switched to Fedora Silverblue over three years ago, I benefited a lot from this guide.

 

The following gif demonstrates folding:

 

The following gif demonstrates folding:

 

Included is the following disclaimer by the author:

  • This may not be representative of all types of Linux users. I’m sure this is not what your AWS engineer uses on EC2.
  • This may not be completely representative of all Linux gamers either. But I’d wage this is actually a good predictor where the market is going to shift. We saw first that Manjaro was getting the boot here first, before going under pretty much everywhere.
  • There may be some additional biases, due to whoever used ProtonDB.
  • Flatpak is NOT a distro, but that’s what Steam reports when it’s running on Flatpak, and Flatpak being distro independent we report it as a separate environment, if that makes sense. Feel free to ignore it if you wish.
  • Arch Linux is Arch Linux on desktop. The Steam Deck’s OS is reported as HoloISO, not Arch Linux, so stop trying to claim that Arch is first because of the Steam Deck! This is mainly data reported from desktop PCs, so no, SteamOS is not a thing at the moment on such machines. This may change as Valve starts providing official support beyond the Steam Deck.
 

Included is the following disclaimer by the author:

  • This may not be representative of all types of Linux users. I’m sure this is not what your AWS engineer uses on EC2.
  • This may not be completely representative of all Linux gamers either. But I’d wage this is actually a good predictor where the market is going to shift. We saw first that Manjaro was getting the boot here first, before going under pretty much everywhere.
  • There may be some additional biases, due to whoever used ProtonDB.
  • Flatpak is NOT a distro, but that’s what Steam reports when it’s running on Flatpak, and Flatpak being distro independent we report it as a separate environment, if that makes sense. Feel free to ignore it if you wish.
  • Arch Linux is Arch Linux on desktop. The Steam Deck’s OS is reported as HoloISO, not Arch Linux, so stop trying to claim that Arch is first because of the Steam Deck! This is mainly data reported from desktop PCs, so no, SteamOS is not a thing at the moment on such machines. This may change as Valve starts providing official support beyond the Steam Deck.
 

A video by SavvyNik that covers some of the highlights from the following recently published scientific article - Wolves in the Repository: A Software Engineering Analysis of the XZ Utils Supply Chain Attack

15
submitted 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) by HayadSont@discuss.online to c/linux@lemmy.world
 

A video by SavvyNik that covers some of the highlights from the following recently published scientific article - Wolves in the Repository: A Software Engineering Analysis of the XZ Utils Supply Chain Attack

 

Fellow open-source enthusiasts,

We all have that mental backlog of promising projects — those distros, tools, and systems we keep tabs on but haven't yet deployed. Perhaps you're waiting for that mythical free weekend, lacking a spare/compatible device or just holding out until that one killer feature drops.

FWIW, my 'someday' list includes:

Operating Systems/Distros:

  • Gentoo – Source-based meta-distribution driven by Portage and USE-flags for near-granular control; binary packages also available if you'd rather skip marathon compile sessions.
  • Guix System – GNU's functional, declarative distro built with Guile Scheme.
  • MocaccinoOS – Image-based, container-built distro that originated from Gentoo/Sabayon but now uses the Luet package manager and OTA-like updates.
  • NixOS – Declarative Linux distribution using the Nix package language.
  • Qubes OS – Security-focused OS that uses Xen virtualization to compartmentalize your digital life into isolated environments with a unified desktop.
  • Spectrum – In-development security-oriented OS built on Nixpkgs using KVM-based microVMs for compartmentalization.

Desktop Environments/Window Managers:

  • COSMIC - System76's comprehensive Wayland-native desktop environment written in Rust.
  • Hyprland – Dynamic tiling Wayland compositor with scriptable layouts and impressive animations.

System Security/Firmware:

  • coreboot – Open source alternative to proprietary BIOS/UEFI firmware (though recent x86 still needs vendor blobs such as FSP/AGESA).
  • Heads – coreboot + Linux payload providing TPM-measured, tamper-evident boot for select laptops.
  • nix-mineral - NixOS module for convenient system hardening.
  • TrenchBoot – Framework for dynamic root-of-trust (DRTM) launches via Intel TXT, AMD SKINIT, or SEV-ES.

Applications/Tools:

  • Android Translation Layer - Run Android apps natively on Linux (still in early development).
  • Emacs – The self-extensible Lisp machine masquerading as a text editor; someday I'll embrace the config rabbit hole.
  • Olive – FOSS non-linear video editor in alpha.
  • systemd-sysext – Overlay read-only /usr and /opt (or /etc via confext) with extra images; extensions auto-activate at boot or can be merged/unmerged/refreshed live with a single command. Handy for immutable distros, though it’s additive-only and not a full package manager.

What open-source projects are you admiring from afar? Time to compare notes!

 

Fellow open-source enthusiasts,

We all have that mental backlog of promising projects — those distros, tools, and systems we keep tabs on but haven't yet deployed. Perhaps you're waiting for that mythical free weekend, lacking a spare/compatible device or just holding out until that one killer feature drops.

FWIW, my 'someday' list includes:

Operating Systems/Distros:

  • Gentoo – Source-based meta-distribution driven by Portage and USE-flags for near-granular control; binary packages also available if you'd rather skip marathon compile sessions.
  • Guix System – GNU's functional, declarative distro built with Guile Scheme.
  • MocaccinoOS – Image-based, container-built distro that originated from Gentoo/Sabayon but now uses the Luet package manager and OTA-like updates.
  • NixOS – Declarative Linux distribution using the Nix package language.
  • Qubes OS – Security-focused OS that uses Xen virtualization to compartmentalize your digital life into isolated environments with a unified desktop.
  • Spectrum – In-development security-oriented OS built on Nixpkgs using KVM-based microVMs for compartmentalization.

Desktop Environments/Window Managers:

  • COSMIC - System76's comprehensive Wayland-native desktop environment written in Rust.
  • Hyprland – Dynamic tiling Wayland compositor with scriptable layouts and impressive animations.

System Security/Firmware:

  • coreboot – Open source alternative to proprietary BIOS/UEFI firmware (though recent x86 still needs vendor blobs such as FSP/AGESA).
  • Heads – coreboot + Linux payload providing TPM-measured, tamper-evident boot for select laptops.
  • nix-mineral - NixOS module for convenient system hardening.
  • TrenchBoot – Framework for dynamic root-of-trust (DRTM) launches via Intel TXT, AMD SKINIT, or SEV-ES.

Applications/Tools:

  • Android Translation Layer - Run Android apps natively on Linux (still in early development).
  • Emacs – The self-extensible Lisp machine masquerading as a text editor; someday I'll embrace the config rabbit hole.
  • Olive – FOSS non-linear video editor in alpha.
  • systemd-sysext – Overlay read-only /usr and /opt (or /etc via confext) with extra images; extensions auto-activate at boot or can be merged/unmerged/refreshed live with a single command. Handy for immutable distros, though it’s additive-only and not a full package manager.

What open-source projects are you admiring from afar? Time to compare notes!

 

While this is an especially great development for the Fedora Atomic aficionados among us, I wouldn't be surprised if we'll be hearing a lot more from sysexts as (yet another) avenue for installing software, particularly on other atomic/immutable distros. The concept itself isn't new - Flatcar has been utilizing this approach for some time (and has been a significant influence on this Fedora initiative).

The gist would be that it basically allows installing software natively without the traditional rpm-ostree layering method. This approach eliminates both the lengthy installation times and reboot requirements typically associated with that process. Though, it doesn't seem to completely replace the conventional method as it comes with certain limitations (as per the developer):

They can not be used to:

  • install another kernel
  • install kernel modules
  • make changes to the initrd
  • make changes to /etc
  • add udev rules

For those wondering what is actually envisioned to be installed using this method, the software that's already available may shed some light 😉.

In any case, note that this is FAR from its final form. The (relative) complexity currently involved in installing and updating software reflects this clearly; don't expect shiny wrappers that will make all of us blissfully ignorant of the underlying complexity right away 😜.

 

While this is an especially great development for the Fedora Atomic aficionados among us, I wouldn't be surprised if we'll be hearing a lot more from sysexts as (yet another) avenue for installing software, particularly on other atomic/immutable distros. The concept itself isn't new - Flatcar has been utilizing this approach for some time (and has been a significant influence on this Fedora initiative).

The gist would be that it basically allows installing software natively without the traditional rpm-ostree layering method. This approach eliminates both the lengthy installation times and reboot requirements typically associated with that process. Though, it doesn't seem to completely replace the conventional method as it comes with certain limitations (as per the developer):

They can not be used to:

  • install another kernel
  • install kernel modules
  • make changes to the initrd
  • make changes to /etc
  • add udev rules

For those wondering what is actually envisioned to be installed using this method, the software that's already available may shed some light 😉.

In any case, note that this is FAR from its final form. The (relative) complexity currently involved in installing and updating software reflects this clearly; don't expect shiny wrappers that will make all of us blissfully ignorant of the underlying complexity right away 😜.

 

Look, I've only been a Linux user for a couple of years, but if there's one thing I've learned, it's that we're not afraid to tinker. Most of us came from Windows or macOS at some point, ditching the mainstream for better control, privacy, or just to escape the corporate BS. We're the people who choose the harder path when we think it's worth it.

Which is why I find it so damn interesting that atomic distros haven't caught on more. The landscape is incredibly diverse now - from gaming-focused Bazzite to the purely functional philosophy of Guix System. These distros couldn't be more different in their approaches, but they all share this core atomic DNA.

These systems offer some seriously compelling stuff - updates that either work 100% or roll back automatically, no more "oops I bricked my system" moments, better security through immutability, and way fewer update headaches.

So what gives? Why aren't more of us jumping on board? From my conversations and personal experience, I think it boils down to a few things:

Our current setups already work fine. Let's be honest - when you've spent years perfecting your Arch or Debian setup, the thought of learning a whole new paradigm feels exhausting. Why fix what isn't broken, right?

The learning curve seems steep. Yes, you can do pretty much everything on atomic distros that you can on traditional ones, but the how is different. Instead of apt install whatever and editing config files directly, you're suddenly dealing with containers, layering, or declarative configs. It's not necessarily harder, just... different.

The docs can be sparse. Traditional distros have decades of guides, forum posts, and StackExchange answers. Atomic systems? Not nearly as much. When something breaks at 2am, knowing there's a million Google results for your error message is comforting.

I've been thinking about this because Linux has overcome similar hurdles before. Remember when gaming on Linux was basically impossible? Now we have the Steam Deck running an immutable SteamOS (of all things!) and my non-Linux friends are buying them without even realizing they're using Linux. It just works.

So I'm genuinely curious - what's keeping YOU from switching to an atomic distro? Is it specific software you need? Concerns about customization? Just can't be bothered to learn new tricks?

Your answers might actually help developers focus on the right pain points. The atomic approach makes so much sense on paper that I'm convinced it's the future - we just need to figure out what's stopping people from making the jump today.

So what would it actually take to get you to switch? I'm all ears.

 

Look, I've only been a Linux user for a couple of years, but if there's one thing I've learned, it's that we're not afraid to tinker. Most of us came from Windows or macOS at some point, ditching the mainstream for better control, privacy, or just to escape the corporate BS. We're the people who choose the harder path when we think it's worth it.

Which is why I find it so damn interesting that atomic distros haven't caught on more. The landscape is incredibly diverse now - from gaming-focused Bazzite to the purely functional philosophy of Guix System. These distros couldn't be more different in their approaches, but they all share this core atomic DNA.

These systems offer some seriously compelling stuff - updates that either work 100% or roll back automatically, no more "oops I bricked my system" moments, better security through immutability, and way fewer update headaches.

So what gives? Why aren't more of us jumping on board? From my conversations and personal experience, I think it boils down to a few things:

Our current setups already work fine. Let's be honest - when you've spent years perfecting your Arch or Debian setup, the thought of learning a whole new paradigm feels exhausting. Why fix what isn't broken, right?

The learning curve seems steep. Yes, you can do pretty much everything on atomic distros that you can on traditional ones, but the how is different. Instead of apt install whatever and editing config files directly, you're suddenly dealing with containers, layering, or declarative configs. It's not necessarily harder, just... different.

The docs can be sparse. Traditional distros have decades of guides, forum posts, and StackExchange answers. Atomic systems? Not nearly as much. When something breaks at 2am, knowing there's a million Google results for your error message is comforting.

I've been thinking about this because Linux has overcome similar hurdles before. Remember when gaming on Linux was basically impossible? Now we have the Steam Deck running an immutable SteamOS (of all things!) and my non-Linux friends are buying them without even realizing they're using Linux. It just works.

So I'm genuinely curious - what's keeping YOU from switching to an atomic distro? Is it specific software you need? Concerns about customization? Just can't be bothered to learn new tricks?

Your answers might actually help developers focus on the right pain points. The atomic approach makes so much sense on paper that I'm convinced it's the future - we just need to figure out what's stopping people from making the jump today.

So what would it actually take to get you to switch? I'm all ears.

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