Honestly that's one thing I like about Lemmy, those conversations are much more possible here.
FreeMindFreeAss
joined 6 days ago
Hey man, I talk to everyone, including IDF soldiers due to where I live. (popular holiday spot for Israelis) I do think that it's worth reflecting upon why the people you meet irl with whom you agree seem like the wrong kind of religious zealots. I grew up crazy evangelical. Zealotry was all that I ever knew. Speaking ill of Israel never ever even crossed my mind until I was probably in my late 20s, that's how strong the religious indoctrination and constant media propaganda is in the US. I was in a Southern Baptist Death Cult. They loved Israel, and the things that they said about Muslims I don't want to repeat here, I'm sure it wasn't an isolated case but the most loving grannies would let hellfire out of their eyes when the pastor was talking about the enemies of Israel. Religion is just too effective at manipulating one's idea of right and wrong. Part of the reason I left is because I saw people who were clearly lost in darkness exulted to high positions in my church. It was some bs, and I was a teen so I had the inclination to rebel against BS. Thank God.
I don't think weirdness is a good basis for opinions, I'm very weird in my way.
But as I said, if most of the people that you meet in real life who share your views on this give you the heebee jeebees, it's at least worth entertaining the idea that your view has been fed to you by online narratives pushed by someone with an agenda.
That's why it is so important to talk to real people. I know, it can be hard. I'm autistic and grew up way tf out in the sticks, like horror movie out in the sticks.
And, until I left and began meeting and talking with more people, I didn't know that I was kinda racist, but I was. Because everyone I knew was, I didn't know that it wasn't normal.
So I guess keep talking, you know what is good and you know what is wrong. We are bombarded with media vying for our attention and opinions, but deep down, you know. Stay true to that.
Yeah I'm with ya there, that's the first step I'd like to see. The right wing in power now scares the bejesus out of me and has the possibility foment generations of hate.
He would lose if there were elections.
Yeah I know, and it almost seems hypocritical since we all basically come form colonial powers. but we used to to horrible shit all the time. We know better, we can be better. And to do it in the name of religion truly disgusts me. Like it or not, the tides are turning.
Tell me about the Nakba? the first one.
Well I mean I know that.
I am not a scholar on the subject, but if you would be so kind as to educate me on the topics wherein my knowledge is lacking I would appreciate that.
I'm not a scholar on the subject, but I would say that antisemites are racist again Jews, in the same way that other racists are racist against Arabs or blacks. The exact same thing, ethnic hate. It's usually pretty easy to identify real hate. Especially if you have been following this conflict. Look into Smoltrich's eyes when he speaks if you need a reference for what hate or evil looks like. There are also plenty of antisemitic podcasters out there. The difference is noticeable.
Antizionists do not believe in the extermination of the indigenous ethnic groups who were inhabiting Palestine AT THE TIME THAT THE EUROPEANS ARRIVED, but do not hate Jews in general. Many of us are jews or come from Jewish backgrounds. An antisemite might hate that a Synagogue opens down the street, an antizionist wouldn't care, but would hate that a mosque was demolished with anti-tank mines for a tik tok video in Gaza. It's a pretty easy thing to notice.
I have living relatives older than Israel, Israel is not Judaism. We do not believe that the land being stolen should be stolen, we do not believe that the people being massacred, should be massacred. We can call it Zionism because that is the word that we have come to use, but it's good ol' fashioned colonialism with a pretty name, and we both know it. If it makes you feel nicer, let's call it settler-colonialism. No connection to religion at all.
Something like that, it's actually a very easy distinction to make. The only people that I see struggling with the distinction are Zionists.
There is always going to be racism. But my fellow human being, genocide is taking place with our money, we are doing this. We will have to die one day and answer for this, and you know as well as I on which side of the scale this will fall.
Did you hear about the ceasefire? Let's see what Israel does. Let's just see.
More of a reaction to being treated like a child, we are adults. We can talk like adults. I am not an idiot, if you lie clearly, it will be clear.
To your question, yes, I think that there is overlap. And that is the danger. I have seen more antisemitism in the mainstream in the last 3 years than in my entire life. My great-aunt burned our family documents in the 90s because she was still afraid that another holocaust could happen. I understand the sensitivity. But it can never be an excuse to do to others what was done to your people. Nobody can look at what is happening and use any other word. We are witnessing a holocaust carried out by the people from which I come. Weep, do not cheer. I think that we are on the same side. I mean, I'm sure that we have different views on the state of Israel and its actions spanning the past 80 years.
But I believe that this genocide, which we all see daily, which we cannot deny, which is ruining the emotional health of former IDF soldiers used as pawns for an imperial endeavor and destroying the lives of their cousins that they are forced to dehumanize and kill, (Again, I speak in-person with former and current IDF members, do you?) is pushing people who might not have had much of an opinion, maybe they laughed at old Jewish jokes, pushing them towards actual hate, because people like Bibi constantly conflate this genocide as a holy war for the Jewish people. When in reality it is an imperial massacre. He and others like him conflate this genocide with protecting the Jewish people. Which side are you on, antisemitism, or pro-genocide of Arabs? Asks Bibi.
Do
You
See
The
Problem
With
That
?
It's not my fault you open antisemitic propaganda pages. Do you give your bank info to random pop ups on porn sites too and then blame it on your computer? Weird how you keep using the word antisemitism when we are talking about Zionism. Why is that? Do you see how the conflation can happen? Most adults know how to use google, you can find tutorials but someone might need to show you how to use youtube first.
Are you just an open liar? The first page when you search his name is plastered with the term "Media Mogul".
This is why people don't talk to you. Stop with the games or leave me alone. You convince no-one. Actually, keep it up, people on the fence can see how dumb your position sounds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p9Y2Sayd3k
But yeah, not a guy who is connected in any way to a government or media organization. I'm done with you. I wish you could open your heart to the suffering of the world, but it's not my job to pry it open. It's not my heart to care about.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cr4qwwk0g0yo
But go on, let's hear about how Fortune and the BBC are Neo Nazi propaganda outlets. You freak. Fuck you. Saying that I consumed neo nazi propaganda? If you knew me.... But of course you don't. Fortune magazine? The BBC? God I hope you're a bot because I do not want to have wasted the past hour talking to a wall. I don't want to believe that anyone could be so dense.
But if you don't want to do any genuine research, as I said, kindly walk away. Keep your horrible, awful vibes to yourself and jerk off over every meter of the Gaza strip which bears a new Israeli flag planted in a generational family home. Be shitty. Who cares about you. It's you who will need to live with this.
Yeah, half of my family is from Southern Tennessee/West Virginia/South Ohio, the other half is from Eastern Canada and Northern Michigan, where I was born. (I mean, European, Jewish and First Nation but I just look white. Most of them, aside from those fleeing the holocaust, came over in the 1600s so its been long enough to become pretty mixed) I'm sure both sides had different reasons, but they had the same sentiment. This here land is yours, and nobody comes in unless you invite them. Neighbors all had that same agreement. That's a bigger part of America than a lot of people know.
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Exactly this. They would make kinda jokes about Jewish stuff. But they want the State of Israel to exist.