Cowbee

And what do you think happens next?

Good politics.

I'm a Marxist-Leninist, it's a good thing.

The Marxist-Leninists won despite 2 other parties competing, for anyone unaware.

I would say it's important to evaluate all of these points as a whole. I think evaluating certain aspects of a system under a microscope without equating how it's supposed to function tends to divert attention from the purpose of the hierarchical system to begin with.

Sure, sounds reasonable.

I don't know if it means they're automatically guided by bourgeois interest, but I would also hesitate to claim that just next it's an SOE it's immune from creating class stratification. My fear is that an increase of wealth disparity is an indication of a new mode of class stratification.

Correct, there is a contradiction at play, and a risk. We do not appear to see this playing against the CPC pruning and managing a Socialist Market economy though, at least not yet.

Not that I want to spiral into endless discussion again , but I think framing the argument where we must assume a dictatorship of the proletariat has occurred isn't a logically sound way to question the effectiveness of any hierarchical system.

Again, I had to. Analyzing the CPC as a DotP would be a conversation in and of itself. If you disagree, we can discuss that point, but the limitations at play means we must make the assumption for the rest of the analysis. It isn't perfect, but I can't write a book, here.

I understand the benefit of a centralized economy, my main fear is that systems of hierarchical control are self reinforcing. Hierarchical systems stabilize over time as you utilize them for their intended purpose. If we take a look at the purpose of a profit driven SOE, it's still to create capital. Now that capital is being controlled by the state, but simply putting that under a stricter hierarchy doesn't mean that the system is going to change its inherent purpose.

Hierarchy isn't the problem, class control is. Hierarchy is a tool. Creating Capital is absolutely important for the PRC, the lack of it under the Gang of Four led to struggles. The CPC controls and carefully manages and prunes the economy as it grows, and absorbs more as it socializes more of its economy as it ripens, so to speak.

If we assume that the CCP continue to nationalize private organizations until 100% of the production value is being controlled by the state, does that mean the purpose of the hierarchical system is going to change? There will still be people attempting to reinforce the hierarchal system they have been judged upon their entire careers. People have risen to places of power by reinforcing the system of profit, and they will try to protect the system that they excelled at.

This is where the Marxist Theory of the State comes in. If the economy is fully socialized, then it isn't competing with itself, and is being planned by the people for the benefit of all. Class antagonisms no longer exist, and the state transitions, as Engels describes, to an administration of things, rather than a policing of people. It won't be Anarchist, but it will be on the way to Communism (the state can't fully wither away until global socialism is achieved).

I'm not an anarchist or anything and don't agree with a lot of his hot takes, however if you're interested Murray Bookchin's analysis on hierarchy is pretty impressive.

I'm aware of the Anarchist critique of Hierarchy, I just don't see it as the primary issue. Socialism isn't a temporary sacrifice, but a drastic improvement on the status quo, and Communism an improvement on it.

An unfortunate rarity now a days. Thanks for keeping it classy.

You too!

Tell that to literally any monarchy in history.

What do you think Capitalism is? It has dethroned the Monarchies throughout history, or relegated them to a fraction of their former power.

Did I say communist? Did I stutter?

All Socialist countries are headed by Communist parties currently, ideologically they are Communists. This is splitting hairs.

Monarchists didn't really support Capitalism, and neither do Communists support Capitalism. Primarily, what is dominant in terms of class structure determines the system, broadly. Liberals want a system dominated by Capitalism and Capitalists, and support measures that protect and service that structure.

Looking for it. Though someone else posted a twitter link here.

Lenin made the clearest case for it in Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism. Financial and Industrial Capital is exported directly to the sources of raw materials and lower cost of living, which is then hyper-exploited for super-profits domestically.

Even within Capitalist countries, starvation is kept dangerous because Capitalism requires a "reserve army of labor," as Marx put it. It's the idea of "if you weren't doing this job, someone would kill for it" that suppresses wages.

Wasn't this debunked previously? Is this new, actual evidence, or is it still just relying on that one tweet as a source?

Scroll by new, rather than active, and scroll by Local, rather than All.

No, it consistently refers to an ideology that supports Capitalism.

No, it consistently refers to an ideology that supports Capitalism.