CooperRedArmyDog

It is a pdf saved to my computer, how the heck do you want me to "coppy a url"

I read the article headline, I too say its false, but I also disagree with you, funny how that can work, we can agree in a boolian statement but disagree with each other, my argument to you is that your starting comment was incorrect and accademicly dishonest

You are free to look it up for yourself, I do not expect yoy tp trust me on absolutely anything, but I am not going to be uploading an entire PDF into a comment

Also if we want to refraim, I will happy argue the PRC is better than The USA, if that is what you would rather be arguing?

I think you are under the false notion that my issue with your comment was that you where saying that the headline was false, That was not my issue, I too take issue with the headline but in the inverse way and we have not at all been discussing that, for any reason and I am sorry you got that impression.

That being said that is not what we have been discussing this entire time, as I have stated MULTIPLE TIMES, my argument is that freedom of speech is not exlusive to the west as you heavily implied in your first comment, and that is what I have been taking issue with.

And I can one tell you it is from the Mao Era Constitution, and I could have made it up, but I have integrrety, unlike you when you just without warrent or evidence said Feedom of speech is an exclusivly western thing. or in such that I only provided you the post 1982 constituiton immedatly after I provided, and cited the Mao era constitution.

no it was not for critisizing the government it was for being a class colaberationist, there is a massive MASSIVE diffrence. you know... they where just fighting Facism ... he was a facists... or atleast acting for a long period of time like a facist...

Second he is being treated worse, Assange's treatment is classified as torture, the PRC by all reputable sources I have found in the time we have been talking did not resort to torcher

I can go to China and Critisize China too... Agian it is not a right exclusive to the west, the point I was making BACK AT YOUR ORIGIONAL POINT, before you moved the goal posts multiple times.

Murdoch is a stanch Capitalist, arguably a facists, we are not the same

I am not claiming those 2 statements, I am saying 1) Mao's PRC was not totalitarian, it was a free society that we can expect given they just emerged from a civil war. 2) the PRC is while not perfect and free of all censor ship significantly better than atleast the United States if not the west, 3) There is significant censorship in the west"

I never made the claim that the west and maos china are the same this is a claim you have ascribed to me and that I have not made, my origional clame, and the one I am still making is that The PRC has freedom of speech and that said right is not exclusive to the west, and is arguable better upheld by the PRC.

Last I have still heard nothing about your false claim that I did not provide the Mao Era constitution text when I in my reply 2 ago did do so, and you blatantly ignored it, because it was inconvenent to your argument.

I brought up articles from the Pre 1982 constitution, or are you conveniently ignoring that I provided the evidence you requested, interesting that when I provide requested evidence you ignore it.

Second you have now ignored my request for information about asange. Strange, who id assagne kill or phisicaly harm, did he sell secrets? last I checked he merly did a journalism... or are we going to also ignore this and make it so only I do the responding here. It is a wonderful retorical trick to make it seem like I am always on the back foot, so to an outside observer it apears as though your winning, dispite the fact you have contributed nothing to the conversation, well besides throwing new accusiation, not responding to my counters and moving the goal posts.

Third you have to understand the material conditions of China at the time, those being coming right out of s civil war* with a US and other capitalist funded side the ROC who flead but where not fully defeated going over to tiwan. For a state in this postion to sucseed, Especialy in the earlie years they have to be hyper vigilent, if not the US usualy will be the one to come in and cut them where they stand, just look at Most of latin america, the exception proving the rule is cuba with their over 600 attempts. or the attempts the US made to destroy the USSR. If you read the works of Wu Han, during this period, he was a class colaberationist (read facists) his play, that agian was not the reason he was arrested but was likely used as point to prove the class colaberation. If you do not think the US does not do similar you are fooling yourself, the seddition act is still on the books in the United States so "Seddicious Speach" will land you in jail too.

No your starting postion is that you cannot critisize the government in the PRC... I have pointed out they have the same rights in the PRC as in the west documented in the same way.

ARTICLE 45 Citizens enjoy freedom of speech, correspond- ence, the press, assembly, association, procession, demonstration and the freedom to strike, and have the right to "speak out freely, air their views fully, hold great debates and write big-character posters."

Also just to rub a little salt into your wounds ARTICLE 52 Citizens have the freedom to engage in scientific research, literary and artistic creation and other cultural activities. The state encourages and as- sists the creative endeavours of citizens engaged in science, education, literature, art, journalism, publishing, public health, sports and other cultural work.

Let me look ever so quickly at your Wikipedia link really quick, and may I note that wikipedia is known for being increadably inacurate and reactionary at all times. After just a little bit of digging I found his arrest was not due to the play in question, but general subsersive activities, that where found to be a threat to the state. Fun fact if you do this in the United States you will also find yourself in prison. I would also like to point out, why is Sweedish Citizen Julian Assange Rotting in Prison at the request of the United States government for the crime of Journalism

3rd you have moved the goal posts, from You cannot critisize the government in china, to what does the constitution have to do with anything, to I was never talking about that you are muddying the waters, to what about this person who tried to tear down a newly formed just after its civil war government jailed. This is moving the goal posts.

They did update it after Mao died, yes but the freedom of speech was listed in the origial.

I do think that the PRC is better than the west, and it does infact have more political parties. however my responce was to your claim that their you can critisize the government in the west but not in China, a patently false claim.

I do not know what you are talking about mudying the waters I assure you it is not intenrional, however it was not me who has moved the goal posts ... geez 4 times now?

I am saying that the West is significantly worse, that being said, I am also not going to say the PRC is perfect... just sigificantly better than the west. I was only bringing up the fact that when you mentioned "In the west you can critisize your own government" the same right applies in the PRC... Heck the PRC has more political parties than here in the US.