Just because you're hung up on the name is no reason not to move forward with it.
Bonehead
joined 2 years ago
As long as you're honest about wanting to give rich people money simply so that you're strict definition of "universal" is maintained, I'll be willing to explain what the "universal" in UBI actually means is "universally available" as opposed to "universally applied".
If you actually paid attention to any of the pilot projects that have already taken place, you'd know that the means test isn't meant to keep people out of the program. It's just meant to ensure the people in the program actually need it. This can be easily determined by looking at tax returns. Much of the strangely detested bureaucracy is necessary to run a large government program. That's just exactly what governments are and will always be. That doesn't mean that it'll be on top of what exists today, and it doesn't mean it'll cost more than it does today. It will much much cost less, because both EI and welfare are covered by this program.
Again, it can work any way we want it to. If we want a simple means test to ensure people are over 17 and genuinely have no income or not enough income as evident by the reported taxes by your employer and your tax returns, then we can have that system. It doesn't need to be complicated. It doesn't need to be "universal", in that its just blindly given to every single Canadian regardless of needs. It can be "universal", in that it's available to every single Canadian that needs it. We can change the definition of "universal" to suit our needs. We can help people in need without having to worry about the rich getting a piece. We can make it all work...if we really wanted to.
If you're just going to insult me, I'm not obligated to continue this. Have a nice day.
We aren't the ones that need to design the system. There are people already in government who are responsible for that. We just need to support the ones that are willing to create a fair system that just gives poor people money without the need to jump through a million hoops and without the need to give people that already have money even more money. That's it. That's our responsibility. Sitting here complaining that bureaucracy costs money and we can't do it unless we give money to rich people too isn't helping.
Again, we can make it work any way we want. It doesn't have to be difficult. There doesn't need to be a lot of bureaucracy. We can just give poor people money. That's it. Just give poor people money. It shouldn't be this difficult. It shouldn't require giving everyone money just because a few poor people were given money. We can really make it work if we truly want to. But it'll never work as long as people want to make sure everyone gets money. Not everyone needs money.
All this talk about the cost of bureaucracy is simply a distraction. Just give poor people money...
Complaining about the costs of means testing is just an excuse to give money to everyone regardless of their situation. Rich people don't need more money. We can base this on tax returns and anyone that didn't make enough money is qualified. It can really be that simple, if we want it to be.
Seriously, just let poor people have some security. Let's just allow this to start, and maybe you can have some money later on. Right now, let's focus on the people that really need help.
By complaining that this will be means tested and therefore not actually UBI.
Please stop advocating for giving rich people money and just let poor people have some security. Seriously, we don't have to stick to a strict interpretation of UBI. We can make it work anyway we want.
Have you ever had a bully almost but not quite hit you, instead hitting something else, but you react as if you were about to be hit and flinch. And then one day you flinch and hit your head on something, but the bully didn't hit you so they tell you it's not their fault. Or worse...you flinch and accidentally hit them lightly, and now they have an excuse to really hit you. Yeah...
That's no healer...that's a paladin...
That's what it seems that you're arguing. But as I said, "universal" can mean whatever we want. Let's just give poor people money so they can survive a little better and not worry about what the exact connotations the name might imply.