Atomic

Yeah. It just feel really pissy, that we're guilted into not taking the car to work. While coal plants are just spewing out all day.

I'm not saying we shouldn't do what we can. That's what the individual can do. I'm just really pissed on all the shit talk from politicians.

There's 256 coal power plants in Europe. Until politicians have made sure they've all closed down, THEN they can start talking about raising tax on fuel for ordinary people, on an environmental basis.

Until such time. They have not done enough themselves. It feels like I'm scooping out water from a boat, and instead of fixing the leak, I'm told I'm not scooping out enough water.

I don't think this is gonna be a very popular response but here's my 2 cents after reading a lot of comments.

We are all products of out time. I'm not gonna blame ordinary people for believing what they were told when it was the general consensus at the time.

That doesn't excuse that behavior today. Today we know better.

But when my parents grew up, burning your garbage in the fire pit was considered recycling. It was the norm.

Today my parents and grandparents don't burn plastic in a fire pit. Because today we know better. But I don't think they ignored it 40 years ago. They just didn't know better.

Good thing we educate people on how to do what we can. Unfortunately, what individuals do doesn't matter much.

In school I did a project on climate change and in that research, I found that 1 single coal PowerPlant in Germany, released more co2, sulfur, monoxide and what not, in 1 month. Than every single registered vehicle in Sweden combined, does in a whole year.

So being a good citizen and taking my bike to the store and work instead of car (even during winter). Feels like a fart in the wind knowing that. Not to mention cargo-ships and what they use on international waters.

Eh. I would wager they just don't want to. Which is fine. But lots of people rather than saying they don't want. Say they don't know how. As an excuse.

Because you're capable of following a set of instructions and when there's something you don't fully understand you try to look it up knowing you have the world's combined knowledge at your fingertips.

I'm not moving anything. We have the same basic opinion. "Visa and MasterCard should not be allowed to leverage their monopolized position into a morality police of what we are allowed to buy or not"

I'm not here to debate you on what is you think is objectionable or not. I simply stated that I wish for people to not make this about porn. Because I don't think that's going to be helpful. You're just giving ammunition for the opposition to use against you. It will take them 5 seconds to use it against you and reach an audience of 100 million. You will have to spend 50 minutes trying to counter, and it will only reach the 10 million that actually bothered to look into it.

How many times do we have to go down this road before anyone learn from it?

So what is the solution? Don't give them that ammunition to begin with. Use other arguments. Arguments that can not be turned against you.

You don't have to agree with that advice. That's fine.

Why would you be advocating for a different term other than CP? It doesn't matter how you depict it. Consensual or not. Abuse or not. CP is CP, and that is bad enough. Anyway. That's not the topic. I was just floored by that statement.

Point is. It seems like you DO compromise. Everyone does. Somewhere you've drawn a line. This is acceptable. This is not acceptable. And regardless of what you think of incest. I'm sure you can agree, that the vast majority of people would frown upon it. And if you say "Visa and MasterCard are bad because they stopped authorizing payments to incest games". Well... You're just not going to get a lot of people to sign up. They're gonna say. "Good."

So, trying to build momentum in a movement, and then using or citing incest porn games on steam as the catalyst, is just not a particularly good strategy in my opinion.

Porn is art, there’s no compromising on that without throwing someone under the bus.

Would you consider child pornography art as well? You don't compromise, that's what you said no?

Could you elaborate on what "respectability politics" is? I've never heard that before.

Point is. Making a movement and using the removal of games that fetishize incest as the drop that made the cup overflow. Is simply not going to go the way you think it is. Unless you think it's going to crash and burn. Then it'll go exactly how you think it'll go.

You can make at least 101 far better arguments against Visa and MasterCard using their monopolized position to morally dictate what people can and can not buy, than having to involve incest porn. Or porn at all for that matter.

That's great, not great that they removed it but a great example of something you can bring up that doesn't hurt the case.

I just really wish people would leave actual porn games out of it. Because that is not going to be helpful to their case.

What if players take the elements of the game to create something the developers didn’t prevent? Like if a map contains a baby on one side of a map and an orgy (in another office) on the other side of the map, is it CP if a player picks up the baby and brings it into the orgy room? Is this something you want the banks deciding?

I said I wish removal of titles would be because of other reasons than payment processors having an issue with it. So to be clear. The answer to your question of if it should be up to banks to decide, is "No".

Additionally, let’s talk about what makes porn. Does “https://yakuza.fandom.com/wiki/Be_My_Baby%E2%80%9D of Yakuza 2 count? Or does it get a free pass because it’s a large publisher?

We don't need to talk about what makes porn. Though it may have been unclear, the titles I spoke of, was the ones Steam removed after PayPal wasn't authorizing payments. The "Incest porn games". I don't know what the law says where you live. But in my part of the world. Incest is illegal. And I do not think games where incest is the goal and depicted as a fetish have any place on steam.

It's ok if you want incest games on steam. That's your opinion. I just said I welcome their removal. But wish they would have been removed due to other reasons.

I don't know exactly how TSA works, I have not flown that much within the US. But I agree that's pretty bullshit.