AlbigensianGhoul

It's the Sargon of Akkad tactic of screaming "I don't care!" while inserting themselves into every single conversation. Somehow they seem to think their dumb uninformed opinions are always equally worthy of merit despite doing zero homework. If you look into the thread, you'll notice most people didn't even read the article.

fr fr you got me there, I'm so owned lmao

my god you're daft.

Russian imperialism, there you go.

Wow, I had never considered before that Russia might be in the war. \s

Yeah, if you see every geopolitical conflict this simplistically, you'll often find that the exact group you already dislike is the cause of all your problems. There's no other way this could've gone, the moment Putin got in power we could already all predict that Zelensky would be elected and that his government would ban all men aged 18 to 60 from fleeing the conflict. It was also similarly inevitable that there would be mass conscriptions not only for war but also for work. Tangentially nobody but Putin had any impact on whether Azov would be formed or on the war against the Donbas separatists.

This was all solely the fault of a single group and nothing anybody else could've done. Come on now, child, you know that politics is not as simple as that. And if you think I somehow think that "Russia good," because I criticise the other side of the war, you might need to read some history of bourgeois wars. It's a reactionary liberal bourgeois country, just like the USA, but much smaller, less entrenched, and with some opposing interests, if you want my opinion on them. It's not really relevant though.

Yes, that’s the prime determinant of the current situation.

So could Ukraine not find other solutions to their present crises? Off the top of my head, accepting Russia's ceasefire requests, letting their civilians leave and not demanding that every worker also present their conscription documents in order to work, all sound like pretty good initiatives to combat the labour shortage. But no, obviously the Ukrainian govt has no agency on their own country and it's all only in Russia's court.

Ukrainian government is still fighting for the existence of the Ukrainian state and against genocide of the Ukrainian identity.

No they aren't. The Ukraine state has had it's existence guaranteed by Russia so long as they concede defeat and allow the independence of the eastern separatists. Besides that, just also not joining NATO. Russia has shown very little interest in annexing the entirety of Ukraine and the Ukrainian identity is safe and sound within the conscript dictatorship of Ukraine. If anything, the NATO puppet government probably has more Ukrainian blood on their hands than Russia for insisting on this lost war for the past 1 year.

But do spell it out then. How is Ukraine's draft only Russia's fault, with no responsibility for it at the Ukrainian government's/NATO's feet? I'd be happy to hear it.

I don't follow. Yes, they are at war. How does that justify labour conscriptions and banning fleeing? I do care about people not dying and having dignity, you see. But sending teenagers into slaughter or forcing them to work to that same slaughter industry doesn't help anybody. It is basically a self-genocide by the Ukrainian government. No wonder that it started as a war against eastern Ukrainians.

Who here exactly defends genocide when the only thing I want in this war is for the suicidal tactics of the Ukrainian government to pause for a second so that civilians can flee and live better lives elsewhere? But you don't care about that, you're a liberal who will justify every war crime from your favourite North Atlantic countries and their puppet governments, under the guise of empathy.

See, 2 can play that game of ad hominem. Answer the question: "How is this not comparable to a modern slave state?"

Care to elaborate? AFAIK, forced labour under the threat of harm and no conditions for escape fits very well into most modern definitions of slavery. But go on, why should I support Ukraine despite this?

bad bot, it's a playlist!

People over here sound so much like CK2 players that I get flashbacks to the thrashfire Pagan Fury dlc soundtrack. "You don't understand, they're fighting a genocide! Which is why we must conscript and self-genocide the entirety of Ukraine to prevent the separatist half of Ukraine from being genocided by their allies!"

We can go all the way back to Gorbachev and we won't find a single root cause of this present situation, but instead many different factors. But I see no reason to assume that the Russian SMO on the DPR and LPR is the sole, deterministic cause of this labour conscription, disregarding all agency of the Ukrainian government and NATO on their own internal policy matters. Japan might've started the war against the USA in WW2, but I don't think it removes the agency of the USA government from putting their Japanese-Yankee citizens in internment camps or nuking Japan twice.

What the other comment seems to imply is that all the issues there are caused solely by Russia's participation in the Donbas War, disregarding how the article goes in detail about how those things listed (such as the labour draft) are policies made by the Ukrainian government. It is clear as day that the Ukrainian government values retaking the east and privatising its property much more than the lives of the citizens they claim to protect.

Well, if they're democratic they should let the people (in which case my self-insert would apply) decide what to do. But a reasonable government could, for example, negotiate an immediate ceasefire and acquiesce to the winning side's demands to prevent further bloodshed. Or it could grab teenagers off the street and tentative migrants and send them to their deaths. Obviously, I already know that the Ukrainian government and their NATO allies prefer the latter, but we shouldn't pretend there weren't other options.

Edit:

What would you do if you were their absolute ruler? Surrender?

Well, yes? Assuming I give even half a fuck about people's lives, I'd prefer a negotiated peace instead of this shitshow any day. Russia's demands aren't even that hard to meet, they're just dragging this out for profit at this point.

I'm quoting again:

The new draft law on the mobilization of workers is intended to "ensure the functioning of the national economy under martial law", in the words of those drafting the law. It is noteworthy that in early August, Ukraine began to talk about a likely ban against military conscripts leaving the country for three years following an eventual end to military hostilities and martial law. Just such a proposal was recently made by Vadym Denysenko [...], head of the Ukrainian Institute for the Future and a former advisor to the head of the Ukrainian Ministry of Internal Affairs. Denysenko said, "I am sure that even after the war it will be necessary to extend the ban on men traveling abroad for at least another three years. Otherwise, we simply will not survive as a nation."

Please illuminate me in your wisdom, how banning people from leaving while conscripting them to either fight in the front or forced labour is not a form slavery. Whose lives are being saved by arresting people trying to flee the country?

To be allowed to migrate and seek asylum because the people don't want to die in the front for a piece of land? That's exactly what I would want if it were me. Would you want to be conscripted for forced labour with the risk of getting sent to the front lines because of some war you don't want to be part of? And if you say "they definitely want to be part of it," then explain why the draft and conscription are needed in the first place.