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Only 20% upvotes while a post I just saw putting Biden ahead in a few polls sits at 89%. This one is from a swing state, but just before the state of the union address. Seems very ripe for discussion and definitely relevant to the community.
Why? I think we all know why: bad news for Biden = downvotes. This is how we end up in a filter bubble.
I don't think it's that -- I can only speak for myself but my instant reaction to bad news about Biden from one of a handful of specific users who tend to post it several times to day come rain or come shine is "bro just give it a fucking rest and let the rest of us organically talk politics."
Yeah fair point, I also notice the same names posting this stuff regularly
And they like bringing up certain points over and over in comments, but they tend not to want to answer simple questions about the narratives they're constructing
Good lord that was a frustrating read. Particularly the lack of a response to a clear question and the "oops I can't find the link" I am basing this entire argument on.
But still, this post in itself is fine imo
Yeah talking to them is a blast 🥲. The message he was responding to with the linked monologue actually also asked how much money went to oil and gas companies, and instead of answering he did that. When I distilled it down into only asking again a relevant question about what he was claiming had happened, he fell silent.
I feel this, it does come with the usual suspects that leave their skewed analysis as well. Had someone last week proclaim that Biden didn't care about abortion the day after the SOTU, seemingly because he didn't do the Roe V. Wade by fiat. I'm left wondering if it is simply ignorance or something more, until I see the same usernames that is.
Posting doom is fine, I will actively downvote reposts though. 18 posts about a single event, many of them the same title and link is just annoying. Even moreso when it's bad data.
I really want to see polling after the State of the Union and now that Haley has dropped out.
If that doesn't move the needle, then we need to re-check polling after the conventions and again after the debates (if we have any).
No, people shouldn't downvote the messenger. When I see articles like this, it gives me more motivation that I need to fight for him. And I really need that motivation, because I'm not a fan of his
Exactly, I really think the best reason to upvote is because the discussion is relevant to the community and interesting and the best reason to downvote is if it's not. And I think most people need that motivation.
Things have already improved on this post, to be fair to everyone, but it's still sitting at zero.
The other commenter Mozz also has a good point about the same accounts posting bad news for Biden over and over again
Yeah, I agree with this. There was a meme that one of the handful of accounts posted to politicalmemes where we had a big argument about Biden's marijuana legalization, and it was removed as misinformation (which, it absolutely clearly was; the OP couldn't in any way justify in the comments what the meme said had happened, and just went silent). I feel like maybe removing it is not a good thing though... like let us talk about it, and if the general consensus is that certain arguments are bullshit, people will figure that out, and it's actually a good thing if they can repeatedly read those bad arguments but then see alongside them why they're bullshit, or make up their own mind what they believe out of what they're seeing.
I can only speak for myself but I've learned a lot about what Biden's accomplished by arguing with the propagandists. They say he failed on something, I go and look it up and learn that it's either not true or not the whole story, and after doing that a few different times I started to realize holy shit he actually did a whole lot of stuff.
Because downvotes are for things I don't like
This is the best summary I could come up with:
That is down slightly from the 6-point lead that Trump had over Biden in the state in the poll from last month.
The former president’s lead expands to 6 points when other third-party candidates are included.
The poll found that a plurality of Biden supporters in the state, 30 percent, are chiefly motivated by their dislike of Trump, while only 15 percent of Trump voters said they are chiefly motivated by dislike of Biden.
A plurality of 32 percent of Trump supporters said they chose him because they care about a specific issue.
He led by the same margin on handling the war between Israel and Hamas.
The poll was conducted from March 5 to 7 among 1,000 registered voters.
The original article contains 329 words, the summary contains 120 words. Saved 64%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
The people of Georgia likely remember 4 years ago when Biden was running around saying if we got 50 D Senators we could pass the whole party platform...
The whole country donated, we won both, and Biden promptly told us he could never change Manchins mind on anything, so trying would be a waste of time.
Which is all the more ridiculous considering Biden's big thing in the primary was how he could get some of the party platform thru a Republican majority Senate.
That makes turnout lower, and when turnout is low, republicans have a chance at the presidency.
Polls aren't everything, but we need to understand why Biden is so unpopular and take steps to fix it or else we're all stuck with trump again.
Ignoring Biden's issues only helps trump.
There's a lot of propaganda surrounding how badly Biden failed on his agenda (on purpose apparently, constituting a betrayal of everyone who voted for him which justifies not voting for him in the future).
The thing is, it isn't true. He took the biggest action on climate change in American history, he forgave $138 billion in student loans, he put in a bill to legalize marijuana federally (which the Republicans defeated) and pardoned anyone in federal prison for marijuana, he took massive action on the economy that was focused on the working class instead of Wall Street (to the point unemployment is the lowest it's been in 20 years even though we were still digging out from Covid when he took office). The talking-point version is, more or less, simply made up.
You're saying that because Manchin blocked the original half-trillion dollar climate bill, and we then did a second round and passed a modified climate bill which still treats the issue as a genuine priority for the first time in American history and attempts to put us on track for a 40% reduction in emissions by 2030, that Biden "ran around" and lied and betrayed the voters of Georgia and doesn't deserve a vote. Yes? Is that what you're claiming, do I have it right?
The thing is, it isn’t true. He took the biggest action on climate change in American history,
Did he?
America has literally never produced as much fossil fuels as we have when Biden has been president.
he forgave $138 billion in student loan
Sounds like a lot, but not even a rounding error in total student loan debt, and the system is still broken. Biden s excuse for not forgiving all, was saying it was pointless till college is cheaper. He did nothing to make college cheaper, and is throwing out crumbs.
he put in a bill to legalize marijuana federally (which the Republicans defeated)
He could order it descheduled and be done before the week is over... That's what he said he'd do, he hasn't done that. And before someone says "Biden can't control federal agencies" he just forced all agencies to do a return to office because Republicans were complaining about telework.
and pardoned anyone in federal prison for marijuana,
Since he won't deschedule, more people keep getting arrested.
he took massive action on the economy that was focused on the working class instead of Wall Street
Most of "the economy" is about the wealthiest accumulating a shit ton of wealth and record fossil fuels.production, that doesn't help the working class, we're still all fucked.
the point unemployment is the lowest it’s been in 20 year
It's actually exactly the same as the month before Biden took office...
https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-unemployment-rate.htm
So...
None of the points you just made were true...
Most voters probably won't recognize all of it was bullshit, but they'd recognize a few and doubt everything else.
Edit:
that Biden “ran around” and lied and betrayed the voters of Georgia and doesn’t deserve a vote. Yes? Is that what you’re claiming, do I have it right?
No, I'm explaining why Biden doesn't have the support he had 4 years ago...
While we still have time for Biden's campaign team to do something.
If you plan a picnic and it rains, are you going to go yell at the weatherman who predicted it because he said it was going to happen?
He tried to warn you. And by your logic that means he not only wanted it to happen, he somehow caused it to happen...
I've had this conversation so many times that I'm just gonna link to earlier responses that apply to this message (edit: I screwed up my links initially; they're fixed or the messages just pasted now). You said none of my points were true, so I'll actually give a response to each and every one:
America has literally never produced as much fossil fuels as we have when Biden has been president.
How I feel about this argument (edit: fixed the link)
How I analyze Biden's climate performance (on track for 40%) is in the message you're responding to; you can disagree with that number obviously but please either address the actual relevant performance-measurement number, or explain why you think that's not a good way to measure a climate bill.
Sounds like a lot, but not even a rounding error in total student loan debt, and the system is still broken.
(Edit: I can't link easily to the deleted thread. Response:)
That’s an excellent point - it is absurd to talk in terms of “I can’t support Joe Biden because there are still items on my progressive wish list where he isn’t a clear enough improvement over the historical norm.” The fact that he’s objectively a huge step forward as pertains to climate change / student loans / marijuana legalization / etc, is a good reason to vote for him for as long as he’s a clear improvement (over the norm, let alone over the horrifying alternative in this particular election). While yes obviously continuing to work to move things forward towards real continued progress because we need more on top of that.
It’s a good point, and I’m glad you brought it up.
He could order it descheduled and be done before the week is over... That's what he said he'd do, he hasn't done that.
(Edit: Pasted response:)
Good spot! I did in fact fail to mention that in addition to the federal marijuana legalization bill, and pardons for anyone in federal prison for possession, Biden did in fact do exactly what you're not holding your breath for, ordering a reevaluation of the scheduling of marijuana. It's a little bit of an empty priority, since just lowering its classification level would still leave it on the "illegal drug" list and doesn't do much for anyone who's in a state prison for breaking a state law, i.e. the DEA dragging its feet on actually doing it isn't enough of a priority to spend time and political capital on.
I could go on about how numbskulled it is to give the Biden administration a hard time for not doing enough to overcome Republican resistance to the big progressive steps they are taking, while simultaneously claiming that he's deliberately doing nothing and that he's functionally the same as the party that's fighting to obstruct him (with some level of success). But I already made that point.
Most of "the economy" is about the wealthiest accumulating a shit ton of wealth and record fossil fuels.production, that doesn't help the working class, we're still all fucked.
I'm gonna make a "bad faith bingo" game where one of the squares is labeled "nihilism".
It's actually exactly the same as the month before Biden took office...
https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-unemployment-rate.htm
...
It's exactly the same as 6.7% in December 2020?
And Biden deserves no credit for unemployment returning to pre-Covid levels after the economic apocalypse which was 2020, down to a low of 3.4% which was never seen on that particular chart previously?
You're gonna have to give me some more details on what you're claiming here.
No, I'm explaining why Biden doesn't have the support he had 4 years ago...
While we still have time for Biden's campaign team to do something.
If you plan a picnic and it rains, are you going to go yell at the weatherman who predicted it because he said it was going to happen?
He tried to warn you. And by your logic that means he not only wanted it to happen, he somehow caused it to happen...
I thought about including "I'm on your side, I'm helping!" in Bad Faith Bingo. I had decided it wasn't worth including but maybe I should include it after all. If you are trying to help the Biden campaign, a good start would be to stop lying in this particular engineered-talking-point way about what he's accomplished with his time in office.
Your links are bad, they make people login to some random instance to view.
Although I doubt I'm missing much, wanted to let you know you're doing links wrong.
Not sure why you couldn't get my link to work, or where your numbers are coming from. Mine are from an official government website that tracks unemployment...
Oops. You are correct; I didn't know the software worked like that. I fixed one link to lemmy.world, and just pasted the text of the other two (since it's difficult to link to messages in the deleted thread.)
Not sure why you couldn't get my link to work, or where your numbers are coming from. Mine are from an official government website that tracks unemployment...
Yes. These are your numbers:
Want to explain?
(Edit: I'm not surprised they don't want to explain)
that semi-walled-off aspect of kbin/mbin give me real "ick".
not even a rounding error
He could order it descheduled
It’s actually exactly the same
What dishonest communication, none of these points dismiss the truth of what was posted.
Not just that, they're literally all not true even within the weird little cherry-pick framework.
$138 billion is about 8% of total student loan debt outstanding for everyone for all years, which means yes it's far from the whole thing, but it's also not a rounding error or a small amount to just whoopsie-daisy out of the federal budget. And saying it's all Biden's fault he didn't use his magic wand to create another trillion and a half dollars to clear the balance in full, it means he doesn't care so I can't support him as a result is... well, par for the course for this type of argument I guess.
(Oh, and actually he tried to forgive around half a trillion dollars in loan debt, but the Supreme Court which it doesn't matter who nominates justices for because both sides are the same, told him no.)
And he did order it descheduled over a year ago, see the discussion below
And by "exactly the same" bro means reduced by half, see the screenshots below from bro's own source
Oh so gratifying to read some serious consideration this morning, thanks for taking the time to share it.
You really believe the average poll responder is aware of Manchin's intransigence and goes on to blame it on Biden? (All while ignoring Sinema and the deep complications of a divided congress of course.) Oh, to live in that space...
Instead, we live in a world wherein the left flank of American politics is just naive enough to believe the above. While ignoring the legislation Biden et al. did manage to get over a difficult finish line.