(source)
Friendly reminder: India is generally Pro-Russia.
this post was submitted on 09 Mar 2024
42 points (100.0% liked)
NonCredibleDefense
7671 readers
1 users here now
A community for your defence shitposting needs
Rules
1. Be nice
Do not make personal attacks against each other, call for violence against anyone, or intentionally antagonize people in the comment sections.
2. Explain incorrect defense articles and takes
If you want to post a non-credible take, it must be from a "credible" source (news article, politician, or military leader) and must have a comment laying out exactly why it's non-credible. Low-hanging fruit such as random Twitter and YouTube comments belong in the Matrix chat.
3. Content must be relevant
Posts must be about military hardware or international security/defense. This is not the page to fawn over Youtube personalities, simp over political leaders, or discuss other areas of international policy.
4. No racism / hatespeech
No slurs. No advocating for the killing of people or insulting them based on physical, religious, or ideological traits.
5. No politics
We don't care if you're Republican, Democrat, Socialist, Stalinist, Baathist, or some other hot mess. Leave it at the door. This applies to comments as well.
6. No seriousposting
We don't want your uncut war footage, fundraisers, credible news articles, or other such things. The world is already serious enough as it is.
7. No classified material
Classified ‘western’ information is off limits regardless of how "open source" and "easy to find" it is.
8. Source artwork
If you use somebody's art in your post or as your post, the OP must provide a direct link to the art's source in the comment section, or a good reason why this was not possible (such as the artist deleting their account). The source should be a place that the artist themselves uploaded the art. A booru is not a source. A watermark is not a source.
9. No low-effort posts
No egregiously low effort posts. E.g. screenshots, recent reposts, simple reaction & template memes, and images with the punchline in the title. Put these in weekly Matrix chat instead.
10. Don't get us banned
No brigading or harassing other communities. Do not post memes with a "haha people that I hate died… haha" punchline or violating the sh.itjust.works rules (below). This includes content illegal in Canada.
11. No misinformation
NCD exists to make fun of misinformation, not to spread it. Make outlandish claims, but if your take doesn’t show signs of satire or exaggeration it will be removed. Misleading content may result in a ban. Regardless of source, don’t post obvious propaganda or fake news. Double-check facts and don't be an idiot.
Join our Matrix chatroom
Other communities you may be interested in
- !militaryporn@lemmy.world
- !forgottenweapons@lemmy.world
- !combatvideos@sh.itjust.works
- !militarymoe@ani.social
Banner made by u/Fertility18
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
How? Because We are neutral on War? Genuinely Asking
Yes. Neutral on this war is enough for me, and evidently others, to say you're on the wrong side. Even the Swiss have wised up to this.
Even the Swiss have wised up to this.
Swiss here, believe me, the cowardice of our federal council hiding behind nEuTrALitY pisses me off to no end
I wish we would go all in in supporting Ukraine. Our neutrality does not extend to violations of international law. Acting like it does is a cowardly political decision supported by ultra rich motherfuckers who hope to continue getting richer and richer through trading with the mafia that is the Russian state
Thanks for your words and thoughts!
By way of clarification on my original post, it's only ever fair to make a statement (sweeping generalization) like mine about a state (ie: the policy/position of its leaders) and not it's people, so I want to make sure that's understood as my position here.
While there have been cases in history where a great number of humans being have been aligned along a "questionable" moral axis, I've never heard of a single case where every person was unanimous in anything, especially on extreme issues.
Fuck, it drove Sweden and Finland into NATO...
From my first hand experience when I visited last year, nearly everyone I spoke to had a hard time acknowledging there was anything wrong with what they saw as Russia reclaiming land that was rightfully theirs. There was often outright admiration for Putin for being brave enough to put the interest of his nation first and telling the West to go swivel.
No coincidence that India has similar feelings towards several of its own neighbours and parts of Kashmir are not too dissimilar to Crimea.
The reaction would be very different if China ever did the same in Taiwan though, because... reasons.
India's neutrality is due to several factors all aligning in the same direction:-
-
We need wheat, fertilisers and oil from Russia.
-
Most Indians, across the political spectrum, have a positive view of Russia due to all the things they did for us during the Cold War. Most Indians wouldn't know what a Ukraine is.
-
The Ukrainian police (and many citizens) attacked Indian students and workers trying to leave the country when the war began. They were also accused of using Indians and Africans as human shields. Ukraine and NATO are also supporting the Gaza genocide.
(I'm guessing there is also some schadenfreude, at least among some people, at seeing a European country getting colonised by a semi-Asian one.)
Also, India has a one-China policy and does not usually comment on the internal affairs of other countries.
I'm guessing there is also some schadenfreude, at least among some people, at seeing a European country getting colonised by a semi-Asian one.
All this tells me is that Indians' objection to colonisation is that they weren't the ones doing it.
There is definitely a section that feels this way, at least with regards to the UK. Fortunately, there are a small minority (for now).
No they aren't. They absolutely aren't. What we are doing in Kashmir is nothing short of colonisation. India is as imperialistic as the west is/was. It's just that we're terrible at it.
From India's point of view, we like cheap imports.
That's why we stay neutral.
Complicity in Ukraining genocide for cheaper wheat and oil.
Ironic you mention that Ukraine was unfair to Indians when the Russians are literally kidnapping them and forcing them to work
https://indiawest.com/india-acting-against-those-who-sent-youth-to-fight-for-russia/
India should probably have given more aid to the Ukrainian people, and helped broker ceasefires or humanitarian pauses. But to destroy our relationship with Russia would be risking famine and economic collapse (see how the significantly richer EU has suffered from lack of oil).
Ironic you mention that Ukraine was unfair to Indians when the Russians are literally kidnapping them and forcing them to work.
The first happened two years ago; the second has only come to light recently. If the Russian state is found to have been complicit in the latter, public opinion will doubtless change.
"If there are 11 people seated at a dinner table with a fascist, and none of them are denouncing the fascist, there are 12 fascists at that table"
Lol neutral on war?
Neutral, noun;
Meaning to side with Russia in a war against an independent sovereign nation state
Definitions are weird aren't they?
WOW congratulations on pulling up a definition and using it in a sentence.
Keep it up maybe one day you'll achieve something.
FUCK Modi’s India. In fact, fuck it all for leaning towards the authoritarian fascists while simultaneously being a rape capital
I hope I live long enough to read books written by Saboteurs who were forced into service for Putin's bullshit.
Every time you think Russia can’t possibly get more evil, they put on their comic book villain hats and go further beyond.
Russia is unbelievably cartoonishly evil. I think when Russia failed to subjugate Ukraine in one fell swoop, Putin went insane and doubled down with stupid plans.
Such is the situation of unemployment here, people are forced to fight for another country and get killed without earning anything????? Two fascists ruined India and Russia
And Brazil. And the US. And Britain, but that's since a long time. And, well, most of Africa and South/Central America. But that was mostly the US, too. China, of course, but that could be argued was Britain's fault. Indonesia, Israel, most of the Middle East really, Turkmenistan, Hungary, Serbia, Belarus...
Can we agree that fascism maybe is not a good idea? Or are we gonna have to fight about it again?
Not here to defend Russia, but afaik Russian soldiers earn about $2000/mo, which would be good for India if higher rank officers didn't take a huge portion of it to themselves.
Ukrainian soldiers earn slightly less - about $1600-1800, but I haven't heard about wage theft there.
Alright salary, but you are working 24/7 and you'll have to get back home alive to actually enjoy it.
Do not forget about PTSD if you come back alive
Eh, your family will get compensated in the event of your death. It's not really sustainable long term, but Russia has dedicated quite a bit of budget to this. There's still fraud and whatnot, obviously.
What a great job opportunity.
The tragic thing is that, for some, it might be. Especially if they're promised that they will serve in a supportive capacity, far away from the frontline. Once you're there, these agreements don't really matter anyway.
The tragic thing is that, for some, it might be.
To add a context here: since the start of the war, the poverty in Russia dropped from 22% to 9.6%. Of course there are both a factor of manipulation with statistics before the presidential elections and a lag between poverty metrics and inflation, but the number still blows my mind: more than 10 million people were elevated from the poverty.
But don't get tricked here: people were forced to poverty, and then the government gave away a few coins back.
To add a context here: since the start of the war, the poverty in Russia dropped from 22% to 9.6%. Of course there are both a factor of manipulation with statistics before the presidential elections and a lag between poverty metrics and inflation, but the number still blows my mind: more than 10 million people were elevated from the poverty.
I have zero trust in that people were actually elevated from poverty
Why? The Russian government spends enormous sum on soldiers salaries, paying unthinkable $2000/mo.
What's your point? They don't really pay this much? Or maybe the war has elevated 1m families of soldiers, while it was compensated by other events?
Not only do I not believe that people actually get that sum, but that their material conditions have actually changed for the better. They've made things better for their people during a costly war? Sure they have.
It's less that they've actively made things better for anyone and more that some of their currency is actually circulating to these folks in the first place. Think about the most dirt poor shithole town you can imagine in Bumfuck Kentucky, where there's no running water and barely electricity, and then make the place 30° and covered in ice for 8 months of the year. That's real life for some Russians. There's not any money to even make out there even if the effort was put into it. So being put in the army and paid a soldier's salary, even if half of it is being skimmed, is probably more money than some of these guys have ever seen in one place before. Add to that the ~~requirement~~ ability to travel through civilization, and they're suddenly living a whole new life they've never dreamed of before. I'd call that an increase in quality of life, even if you're only upgrading from Russian Peasant into Russian Soldier that's still a fairly significant boost in some cases. Right up until some Ukrainian high schooler drops a pipe bomb in your lap from a drone to complete his killstreak.
Where do you get this numbers from?
Interesting conclusion. When I was half way through reading your comment I had just assumed the drop was caused by the poor being the ones sent to the trenches, dying as cannon fodder, and as such reducing the % of poor people across the whole population of Russia
reducing the % of poor people across the whole population of Russia
No, no, no. Even Ukraine estimates Russian casualties as 400k, and they include severely wounded, pov, and Ukrainians mobilized from occupied territories. Russia has 120-140m people (there's a conspiracy about how many people live there, but sociologists give this range). In the first COVID year the excessive deaths were about 1m. Hence the casualties, cynically speaking, is not that significant.
What's disturbing is that those soldier salaries are providing state money and purpose to Russian regions that never saw it before, so there lives are actually getting better thanks to the war. As opposed to the common belief here that Russians are suffering from war related restrictions, the majority is not, only privileged Moscow people may have their life impacted by international sanctions. Source: https://www.newsdirectory3.com/the-majority-of-russians-have-never-had-it-so-good/
While I agree that sanctions affected only the privileged minority as myself, there are subtle signs that Russian society isn't taking the war in a healthy way:
-
High reported anxiety with a peak at Sep 2022 https://www.euronews.com/2023/09/26/bursts-of-anxiety-impact-of-ukraine-war-on-russians-laid-bare-in-poll
-
Spiked alcohol consumption (+10% a year) https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/01/15/alcohol-dependency-in-russia-increases-for-first-time-in-a-decade-a83718
-
An anti-war presidential candidate that had 10% support a month before the election
Seems very far from being enough to make the majority push for a change of regime as we could wish for.
It'll never be enough, until it is 🤷🏼♂️
At first I read "Dig fucking french" and was very confused.
I don't want to be sent to dig frenches and die for multiple Putin's yachts and countless mansions.
