this post was submitted on 21 Feb 2024

273 points (92.0% liked)

Work Reform

13206 readers

205 users here now

A place to discuss positive changes that can make work more equitable, and to vent about current practices. We are NOT against work; we just want the fruits of our labor to be recognized better.

Our Philosophies:

All workers must be paid a living wage for their labor.
Income inequality is the main cause of lower living standards.
Workers must join together and fight back for what is rightfully theirs.
We must not be divided and conquered. Workers gain the most when they focus on unifying issues.

Our Goals

Higher wages for underpaid workers.
Better worker representation, including but not limited to unions.
Better and fewer working hours.
Stimulating a massive wave of worker organizing in the United States and beyond.
Organizing and supporting political causes and campaigns that put workers first.

founded 2 years ago

MODERATORS

seeCseas@lemmy.world

tintory@lemm.ee

TinMod@lemmy.world

273

The fun thing about needing a job is that all the advice is either incredibly demeaning or incredibly futile. Usually both (lemmy.world)

submitted 1 year ago by _number8_@lemmy.world to c/workreform@lemmy.world

26 comments fedilink hide all child comments

i saw someone on twitter saying to "leverage your network" i'd sooner leverage a shotgun into my mouth jesus fucking christ

plus all this is meant to be done at a time when you're likely at your lowest confidence, most insecure, and most desperate.

just the idea that it's my job to sell myself to these sorts of business goons who ENJOY seeing people desperate and on edge is so sick. i have nothing to sell, i am not a commodity, i am a human being. and everything's ran thru some shitty AI now i'm sure. like the applications weren't demeaning enough.

can't we all just be assigned jobs by the government? it'd build social cohesion. like the hunger games. maybe you can opt out but I'd rather take my chances than answer these fucking personality tests or get so hopeless i'm actually applying for something with hours I hate with a miserable commute with a terrible wage which ALSO won't hire me

all 29 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[+] Humana@lemmy.world 98 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

[deleted]

[–] _number8_@lemmy.world 61 points 1 year ago (2 children)

yeah, people shit on the boomer 'firm handshake' thing but at this rate, even as a card-carrying introvert i'd rather take my chances and at least get a feel of the place rather than filling out another godawful application that no one will ever read

[–] SuperSynthia@lemmy.world 38 points 1 year ago

One way I was able to land a job was doing the old fashioned “speak to the hiring manager and shake his hand”. She said out of all the online applications (hundreds by the way every month) I was the first person to actually go up there and express interest. Still had to put in the online application, but a week later I interviewed and got the offer.

These businesses love to dehumanize the employee pool when they should realize it’s so easy these days for them to get in the exact same position.

[–] Zorque@kbin.social 18 points 1 year ago

People shit on it because it was mostly backed by racism and sexism.

[–] pixxelkick@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

LinkedIn is fine, my past 2 contracts both were off LinkedIn
Yes, include keywords but spread them out, absolutely. Also include them in your cover letter.
Don't use headhunters, but you can use recruiters.
Pick a specific tech stack to specialize in, one that is popular abd high demand. 100% yes you should have a portfolio using that tech you can link to on your resume or applications. Focus on applying to the smaller but refined pool of jobs that explicitly need the exact tech stack you have in your portfolio.

Example: I specialized in .NET tech stack. C#, azure, EF Core, NUnit, Sql Server, etc etc. The full windows stack.

It's a super popular stack, and there's tonnes of demand. I don't waste my time applying for python or c++ or lua or go or rust jobs. I stick to my stack.

I have many projects on my github using that stack, including install instructions, releases, docker containers, etc etc.

As a result I can talk about the tech used in these stacks extensively, I know them like the back of my hand. I have strong opinions on patterns with them, I can teach others about them, etc.

[–] AnarchistArtificer@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What's the strongest opinion you have on the stack you know (or one of its elements)? Not necessarily "interview-safe" opinions

[–] pixxelkick@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

I despise the current paradigm of mock'ing everything, abstracting everything, and unit testing 100% cide coverage for no logical reason.

Instead I only unit test the following:

Any code I truly want to unit test, because it does something that is iffy on if it works or not, I break out into atomic logic that can very easily unit test.
Code coverage is a business requirement and we already have 100% coverage from integration tests, then I'll start worrying about unit testing the shit out of stuff.

In other words if you waste time on mindless unit tests to assert that 1+1=2 when you dont have 100% coverage on your integration tests yet, you are wasting time.

In terms of atomic code, consider this example:

public class StudentService(IStudentRepository repo)
{

    public bool AnyGrade12()
    {
        var students = repo.GetStudents();
        return students.Any(s => s.Grade == 12);
    }
}

This would be very normal as a pattern to see, but I hate it because to test it, now I need to mock a stubbed in IStudentRepository.

Consider this instead:

public static class StudentService
{

    public static bool AnyGrade12(IEnumerable students)
    {
        return students.Any(s => s.Grade == 12);
    }
}

Now this is what I consider atomic logic. The rule of thumb is, if the class has no dependencies or all it's dependencies are atomic, it too is atomic.

Generally it becomes clear all the atomic logic can just be declared as static classes pain-free, and there's no need to abstract it. It's trivial to unit test, and you don't have to mock anything.

Any remaining non-atomic code should end up as anything you simply must integration test against (3rd party api calls, database queries, that sort of stuff)

You'll also often find many of your atomic functions naturally and smoothly slot into becoming just extension functions.

This approach goes very much against the grain of every dotnet team I've worked with, but once I started demoing how it works and they saw how my unit tests became much less convoluted while still hitting ~90% code coverage, some folks started to get on board with the paradigm.

[+] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 37 points 1 year ago (1 children)

[removed by mod]

[–] fubbernuckin@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Also, they're using ai to weed out applicants, use ai to generate applicable content. They lie about the job description, you lie on your resume. You're allowed to play the game with any tools at your disposal.

[–] andyburke@fedia.io 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

BAD COMPANIES do this.

why would you want to work at a bad company? I know you want the paycheck, but that kind of company is gonna wage theft your ass, anyway.

[–] fubbernuckin@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

oh yeah? And how easy is it to find a good company that can actually pay you? You think all the bad ones have a tag on their front page that says "hey, we comb through your resume with an ai"? If i had the option to only apply to companies who don't do this, that'd be my first choice, but as it stands, the only way to find them is to play the numbers game.

Besides, this is against the point anyway. You want us to all play by the rules when they don't have to? At that point you're cheating yourself on the basis of "not all companies".

[–] i_stole_ur_taco@lemmy.ca 34 points 1 year ago

“Leverage your network” is just corporate word salad for an otherwise good idea.

Throughout your life, you’ve studied, been friends with, or worked with people who knew you and you had respect for their sensibilities. That might mean as little as texting or emailing a couple of people and saying you’re looking for work and asking if they have any suggestions for you.

I’ve been working for over 20 years and in my experience, the type of people who are doing the gross version of “working their network” by pretending on LinkedIn are NOT any of the people I would ever want to work with again. They’re either fakers, insane, selling something, or never learned how to properly interact with people. Once you can smell them from their online activities you can learn to avoid them.

I’d say most quality job opportunities come from people you know, and it happens quietly. Nobody’s posting public garbage on social media - they’re having direct conversations with people who are able to connect them with a single person who needs to hire somebody and also doesn’t want to sift through thousands of resumes submitted by bots.

All that doesn’t really address your frustration, though. The game is gross, and it sucks that we have to play it.

[–] circuitfarmer@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago

just the idea that it's my job to sell myself to these sorts of business goons who ENJOY seeing people desperate and on edge is so sick. i have nothing to sell, i am not a commodity, i am a human being.

This hit me hard. I'm in a similar boat. All I can say is do your damndest to stay positive friend. It's a fucked up game that only some are forced to play.

[–] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

As @Humana@Lemmy.world said, a lot of "career advice" is or can seem contradictory.

Being a recruiter itself sounds like hell as much as looking for a job. Having to be the one who communicates bad news to so many people all the time, having to go through reams of resumes and bullshit, your career being specifically tied to whether firms are hiring or not, which leads to being laid off followed by employers rushing to find people to hire with again...

Looking for jobs takes practice and a whole lot of luck. "Leverage your network" is just bullshit speak for talk to people you know who might know where a job for you is. Firms hire at random times during the year, some months no bites, others you'll get multiple.

Remember this variance is not your fault whatsoever and has nothing to do with your abilities.

The best time to look is while you have work but the second best time is now.

I know it is daunting, and the search feels endless. It might take you hundreds of rejections and 10 tries of getting very close but not making it but you only need 1 offer at minimum.

Like a "Continue?" screen at the arcade, you only lose if you give up.

[–] Gold_E_Lox@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 1 year ago

i think I'll just give up

[–] morrowind@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Having to be the one who communicates bad news to so many people all the time

I mean, they're just automated emails. You click a button

[–] i_stole_ur_taco@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago

The good ones click the button. The shitty ones don’t even do that much.

[–] Blackout@kbin.social 23 points 1 year ago

Have you tried lying on the floor, curling up into a ball, and giving up all hope? Always worked for me

[–] Dagwood222@lemm.ee 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Apply for any and all Civil Service jobs. It might take you a long time to get called, but you get a good union and a pension.

[–] YaksDC@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It took me 3 months of waiting for my federal job, that was 22 years ago.

[–] Dagwood222@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago

That's pretty fast. I know people who waited for years to get hired in the Fire Department.

[–] d00phy@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

It’s important to remember you are not looking for a family to join, you’re literally marketing your skillset to employers looking to hire. It feels dehumanizing because it is. Before hiring you, companies don’t really care about your personality. If they decide to hire you, good companies consider how your personality will fit in with the current team. Also, who you know can be a big part of finding a job. Always has been, in fact. Marketing yourself is really nothing new. The particulars have changed, but the core process is basically the same.

[–] andyburke@fedia.io 3 points 1 year ago

The same advice works for job seeking that works for dating: you are looking for somewhere (vs. someone) that is compatible with you.

Many, many places (or people) are not going to be what you need, or you aren't what they need. So the quest to find the right one is always going to take a while.

The more desperate you become, thinking you are the problem, the more you become the problem. Just breathe and realize you are who you are and it just takes time.

If any interview ever makes you feel bad or too desperate, just get up and walk out. You can, you're a free person. There is some job somewhere that is right for you, it just takes time to find it.

[–] Noodle07@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

So funny to read, I'm just here looking for a beginner office job like receptionist over here lol

[–] Crystal_Shards64@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

I'm sorry you're in this position. I hope things improve for you soon. I hope things improve for all of us soon because it feels like most people are getting shafted hard.

A coworker I really enjoyed working with is leaving in two weeks and it made me realize how I'm being severely underpaid. But the stress of job hunting has my stomach in knots.

[–] metaStatic@kbin.social -1 points 1 year ago

You don't need a job you need to acquire currency. A job is just the easiest way to do it.

[–] Nomecks@lemmy.ca -4 points 1 year ago

Go to networking events. Shake people's hands and talk to them. Fuck Linkedin and doing anything other than in-person communications.

[–] pixxelkick@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago

It mostly sounds like you are trying to justify inaction.

Posting on lemmy certainly isn't going to help.

There's countless jobs, it's not that bad. Typically if you aren't getting at least some emails back it means your resume has some serious issues and needs fixing.

Pretty much everytime this comes up, the persons resume is very poorly setup and it's obviously why they aren't getting callbacks. Wrong formatting, not parseable, not straight to the point, not scannable, meanders, skips over critical information...

That or the person admits they haven't been putting cover letters on the applications.