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Other 196's:
Depending on your definition, this actually is not peak performance.
Subways are.
Obviously, the tunnels are absurdly expensive, but nothing moves as many people as quickly around a city as a subway.
They're also extremely reliable, meaning people are even more likely to actually use them, and their above-ground footprint is essentially zero.
Subways are for mobility (moving large numbers of people rapidly); trams are for access (getting you close to your destination). They complement each other and a well-designed city would have both.
I have to disagree. Accessibility of underground transport is abhorrent. Changing from underground to aboveground buses and trains is also shit. The space use of public transport in comparison to car infrastructure is completely negligible. If anything put all the cars underground as they are ugly and stinky. This picture also give you happy chemical because it is green and is not another dead, sealed asphalt hellscape.
But I like watching things outside the trams.
Skytrains my dude, similar footprint, same tech, and I assume it costs significantly less, and is able to dip underground when there absolutely ISNT the footprint for it above ground
Monorail!
While monorails are cool, skytrains are literally just trains and thus insanely hard to beat for cost vs efficiency
Monorail!
Yeah, I guess it depende of definition. For example there is also extra costs with lighting and ventilation for example for subways.
Totally agreed, but the image looks so nice with the grass, subways don't have that
Completely agree, however I think this is decent intermediary between the larger investment into subways, especially depending on geology
If San Francisco informs, light rail streetcars are a gateway to underground subways. It gets the city in the habit of getting on a railcar to go places while the greater infrastructure (the tunnels) are built.
MUNI is mixed undeground and street. BART is over and under and being extended to this day.
I cannot understand people that argue their 6 lane stroad is better than this in any way. It may feel more convenient for some, but at what cost?
Probably because public transit requires people to be around other people, and they'd rather get around in their little bubble without interaction (except giving a BMW the finger).
This but also a lack of experiencing good transit
True, but I'm just going off of my experience as an American. Too many people are so antisocial that the idea of sharing space with other strangers is foreign, mostly because they've lived so long without it. Obviously this isn't true in places like NYC, but in Los Angeles you'd have a hell of a time convincing people to give up their cars.
This is what headphones are for, fuck cars
This is from someone who feels physical discomfort when someone interacts me unprompted
I think the key thing is most people don't like change. They know stroads. They may not love stroads but they work and it's what they've used. I've been all over the place in this country and by and large public transportation SUCKS and creates more headaches than anything. Just hopping into a car is 1000x easier. So that's the view I think most people go into this with. In the cities where public transportation is good, it's a complete game changer, but they are few and far between so most people don't have a good reference point. They see people pushing public transportation and think of their own shitty system and say F that.
They’ve also had to invest in their car personally and they don’t want to have their investment nullified. Who do they sell the car to if they’re no good anymore?
Of course, there will still be roads and you might still need the car; but if you have the car why not just drive straight to the place you need to go?
So personal transportation itself is a bit of a problem - you need to make the replacement better than the current status quo. If it doesn’t save people time, if it doesn’t allow people to transport goods as easily as vehicles do, they’re not going to want to give up their car; because at the end of the day it will ultimately complicate things for them.
It’s a huge challenge towards gaining acceptance for public transit.
Just today I saw this list of the largest tram networks in history: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_tram_and_light_rail_transit_systems_ever
The largest existing one is Melbourne, at a little over 250 km of tramways. Los Angeles at its peak had over 1700 km of tramways.
Truly insane what we tore up. A crime against humanity.
Truly insane what we tore up.
Didn't know much about this so just looked it up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy
Why does every problem ever always boil down to capitalism?
I think many of them simply got converted to sub ways and such.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_suburban_and_commuter_rail_systems
A few of them did, but certainly not the majority.
Atlanta's streetcar system got entirely torn out, paved over and converted to buses. We didn't get a subway system (on entirely different right-of-way, and much less of it) until decades later.
Similar with Montreal. A whole grid of streetcar lines just got torn up and replaced with buses. We now have a nice metro now at least, but it certainly wasn't made from pre-existing tramways.
Off camera, there's a lawn mower driving as fast as it can away from the approaching tram
I'm stuck in stupid America, but my British friends tell me of regular rail delays because of leaves on the rails. I assume that isn't a problem with these trains, so why is this a problem in the UK?
It's a big problem for anything using rails. https://youtu.be/ZEuFSw-CMzU?feature=shared
Maybe they're just taking a piss? Same for the whole train system shutting down due to a single snowflake.
I've been looking into it since I posted that and apparently it makes the rails slippery and the trains have to slow down because of it and trains have to slow down because of it.
https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/leaves-line
So I guess the answer is that these trains have to slow down too.
One small problem. Pantographs and tree lines.
It is beautiful though.
Eh, it's nothing that actually having enough budget to fund proper maintenance (e.g. tree pruning) can't solve. Presumably, any city on-the-ball enough to build decent infrastructure like this in the first place has got that covered.
Proof of concept, trees I agree don't do too well with electrified infrastructure
What's not to like?
I'm looking at unadulterated communism here and I hate it! Remove the green and the tracks and let honest working people park their lifted F 350 to go grocery shopping and bring little Braendin to school!
devils advocate:
-concidering it is in the middle of a city there are basialy no wild animals -this isnt more dangerous to the remaining few than any 4 lane Road -there are city maintenance workers who take care of the trees -during realy bad storms there are also branches on the streets
vs
1 billion different advantages
The actuall biggest problem would be leaves on the rails in autumn.
me like tramz
The building in the background on the right is a good point of reference https://maps.app.goo.gl/nzUaXj6BJLrFNfe67