I mean, I'm a hard determinist, so I don't think anyone has free will, regardless of their belief system.
this post was submitted on 24 Jul 2023
123 points (91.8% liked)
Atheism
1662 readers
1 users here now
- Be respectful to other members Treat others with kindness and courtesy, even if you disagree with their opinions.
- Stay on topic Keep your discussions relevant to the purpose of the forum. Avoid going off-topic or derailing conversations.
- No spamming Avoid posting irrelevant or unnecessary content, advertisements, or links to unrelated websites.
- Use proper language and tone Choose your words carefully when commenting or replying to others. Avoid using profanity or engaging in offensive language and personal attacks.
- Do not share personal information Protect your privacy by refraining from sharing personal details such as addresses, phone numbers, or email addresses on the forum.
- Report any issues If you come across any inappropriate behavior or content, report it to the forum moderators or administrators.
- Have fun and contribute positively Participate actively and add value to the discussions. Engage in meaningful and constructive conversations with fellow members.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
If god is omnipotent and all-knowing, then why would god need to plan?
Maybe he never needed to plan, but always had a plan. We can argue this follows from omniscience. You don't have to do the planning when you already know what the plan will be before you start planning. You just have a plan.
If God is omnipotent and all knowing, why do children suffer?
And the “answer” to that is often “it’s God’s plan”. Which I don’t understand. I know this is an incredibly basic question, but I don’t have anyone to ask.
If its God's plan for children to suffer then I don't really like or respect him.
However, amazing as we are here on lemmy, we are not the first people to ask this question or similar. There's tonnes of discussion on the 'problem of evil' from all sides, and it makes for interesting reading ng matter how athiest/agnostic/Pagan you are.
Irenaeus claimed that we were underdeveloped to face good, and had to be exposed to evil to mature (which I don't hate as a concept because sometimes you do have to experience suffering to understand it, but it doesn't work if god is all powerful and created us). The free will argument puts blame back on us horrid humans and off the Shiney happy god that created the...horrid humans. There's the concept of natural evil, of evil being a lack of good, of trickster Satan etc. Worth a deep dive if you have time.
And I recommend Dostoyevski 'The brothers Karamazov'. I butched that spelling. However, a monk brother and an athiest brother have a great conversation about the horrific things that have happened to innocent children and how god allowed it to happen. The whole books a mission, but the recommended chapter is...seven I think? It's near the beginning.
I’ve heard of that book, but never knew that’s what it was about. Sounds interesting. Thanks!
Enjoy!
Don't let the riches keep on richer, or delete currency as a whole, then we may have free will. Religion is just a part of the Problem.
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theological_determinism#Free_will_and_theological_determinism and https://www.theopedia.com/compatibilism:
The answer is theological compatibilism. The idea that people actually have free will, while some fate or divine plan exists.
people will always choose what they want-- and what they want is determined by (and consistent with) their moral nature. Man freely makes choices, but those choices are determined by the condition of his heart and mind [...]. God's involvement: God is said to influence our desires, and thus is able to have exhaustive control of all that goes on.
The paragraph about moral responsibility was interesting:
In general, people agree that the one with uncaused action is held responsible for an action. Not the ball that was caused to roll, but the person who was not caused to push is held responsible for the rolling of the ball. However, according to this worldview, the same does not apply to humans. Although a man is considered unable to choose against his desires, which are caused by his sin nature or God's intervention, the moral responsibility of sin lies with him. He chose to do it, therefore he is held responsible. Not what caused him to choose, but he that chooses is held responsible.
This understanding of moral responsibility absolves God of authorship of sin; man, as caused by fall, is naturally "inclined to all evil" (Heidelberg Catechism, Q.7).
I guess in the end it does not have to make sense anyways, because belief.
That's not an actual answer though, it's just a politician's "answer" and then pretending afterwards that the question was answered. Free will means you can change your mind. If you can change your mind, it's possible that you would change your mind at the very last second. However, if it's possible to know ahead of time with 100% certainty what someone will do, then they don't actually have the ability to change their mind at the last second, and any concept of choice is an illusion.
The second quote only addresses why god isn't at fault if free will exists, and therefore doesn't address the issue