Sovereign citizen files a 'notice of mistake ', a fine piece of legal documentation, complete with the classic sovcit red thumbprint. : insanepeoplefacebook

[–] Sage_the_Lawyer@lemmy.world 105 points 2 years ago (7 children)

Actual lawyer here. Just in case anyone was somehow unsure, this is utter nonsense.

In fact, calling it nonsense might be giving nonsense a bad name. Completely deranged might be better.

But yes. These people do exist. And they are a pain in the fucking ass. Every 100th filing they actually say something that does have legal precedent, and that you can't ignore. So you have to actually read every line of their bullshit. Nobody wants to be the lawyer that actually lost to a sovereign...

But hey, at least they usually end up paying our fees in the end.

[–] Phanatik@kbin.social 24 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I've heard what SovCits do being referred to as paper terrorism.

[–] Sage_the_Lawyer@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago

Yep, this is a common expression, and I fully endorse it.

[–] duplexsystem@lemmy.blahaj.zone 15 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Do you have a public example of a sovereign saying something that has precedent?

[–] Sage_the_Lawyer@lemmy.world 24 points 2 years ago (2 children)

The Wisconsin Journal of Family Law published an article about them a couple months back, their October 2023 issue. I'm not sure exactly how public that is, might only be for members. And for some reason I can't upload the pictures I just took to this comment. I'm probably doing something wrong, haven't shared pictures in a Lemmy comment before. I'll try something else in a bit maybe, or if anyone wants to walk me through it I'd appreciate it, but I can't spend too much time trying to figure this out right now. Work and all that.

But I kind of said it wrong for simplicity's sake. It's not that 1 in 100 filings has something (well, maybe it is, but...), it's that one of their strategies is to file a pleading with 100 points of nonsense, and then in that nonsense, they bury something that cites a real law which says a response is required. If you don't respond, you lose.

The article said don't engage them in face to face arguments because they're insane and that's a waste of time, but make sure to read their filings carefully.

[–] Sage_the_Lawyer@lemmy.world 24 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Okay well I just uploaded it to an imgur album. Here you go: https://imgur.com/a/yoJch6n

[–] wishthane@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

Thanks for sharing, that was interesting

[–] PM_Your_Nudes_Please@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

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[–] dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago

But hey, at least they usually end up paying our fees in the end.

I'm just amazed that this movement hasn't sworn off fiat currency while they're at it. Assuming they're not paying in precious metals, that is.

[–] Klear@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago

Nobody wants to be the lawyer that actually lost to a sovereign…

Has that ever actually happened?

[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (1 children)

can't something like this 'legal maneuver' be used as further evidence to take this numpty's kids? a sovcit household is obviously not safe place for children.

[–] Red_October@lemmy.world 14 points 2 years ago

Ah but they do not identify as a household, it is a domicile containing non-incorporated individuals, so your rules don't apply.

[–] BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Do you have any good sovcit stories?

[–] Sage_the_Lawyer@lemmy.world 27 points 2 years ago

My only experience with one wasn't all that bad, but still kind of funny.

Client was charged with resisting/obstructing and disorderly conduct. Basically, the cops had closed a road because of an accident. Client was on his bike, and the officer told him the road was closed and he had to go a different way. Client flipped his shit, started yelling that the officer had no right to tell him where to go (yes they do), and no right to ask for identification (yes, they do).

Client finally started going an alternate route, and the officer was going to just let it go. But then he doubled back and tried to blow past the officer. Got arrested. Hired us.

I called the prosecutor to see what kind of reduction they'd be willing to do (standard procedure), and they were willing to drop one charge and reduce the other to an ordinance violation (pay a small fine).

Told the client this, who then flipped out on me for talking to the prosecutor without his consent (???) and without him there (which is, y'know, what he hired us to do). Fired our firm and demanded a refund. We all had a good laugh, and he did not get a refund.

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[–] ajmaxwell@lemmy.world 72 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I love that he says the court has no jurisdiction over him, then ends his letter with "certify under penalty of perjury under the laws of the United States of America that the foregoing is true and correct."

Absolutely bonkers.

[–] KISSmyOS@feddit.de 6 points 2 years ago

They believe there exist both a true United States of America, and a completely separate United States of America corporation (whose laws they aren't subject to).
Then they pick and chose which laws belong to which of the 2 US's, based on what's beneficial to them.

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[–] Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 62 points 2 years ago (2 children)

As a father going through custody issues the idea that I would forget when a hearing is going to happen is unimaginable. Even if I didn't have a good lawyer, I'd staple a note to my head to make sure I was at least there for my kids.

I'm not sure if I should be sad one or more kids lost their father, or glad that he probably won't be involved in their lives.

[–] jopepa@lemmy.world 26 points 2 years ago

You’re right to feel both.

[–] BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago

This guy is seriously insane, drives with fake license and ID, has harassed his ex, been arrested a LOT, and hasn't paid taxes in over a decade. He has no contact with his kids anymore and that's probably good.

[–] EdibleFriend@lemmy.world 53 points 2 years ago (3 children)

We never get the 'WTF IT DIDN'T WORK' follow ups in these and, honestly, it feels like holding in a sneeze.

[–] BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.world 17 points 2 years ago (5 children)

Oh I can help with that, although sometimes they just drop out of sight.

[–] Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 9 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The ostensibly broken vacuum cleaner leaning against the outside of the house is the icing on the cake in that picture

[–] BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

And the cracks in the door!

[–] EdibleFriend@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago

Okay that's a beautiful one

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[–] dreugeworst@lemmy.ml 37 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

Ok ok, let's assume they are right and legal magical words do exist. Why on earth would you write 'do not construe my words' on your magical piece of paper? Did they mean misconstrue? Is this some sort of copy pasta nobody reads?

[–] dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago

I'm just imaging someone in a powder wig shouting these words, with the same energy as "witness me!"

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 6 points 2 years ago

Probably

[–] dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world 33 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

The fact that someone saw this pseudo-17th-century style legalese and thought "this looks legit", is just wild to me.

This is the kind of thing you perform when role-playing a colonial-era barrister for laughs. Which would be weird, but it would at least make sense.

Anyway, this reads kind of like an attempt to (somehow) opt-out from participating in, well, citizenship (sovereign citizen?). But while retaining the right to stay put. But not as an alien. But then using US law to assert they are not lying, in every version of the US across the entire multiverse ("in all dimensions")

[–] stoly@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Worse: it's riddled with stylistic errors.

[–] Kiernian@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago (2 children)

It's utterly atrocious for style but I still can't wrap my brain around the legal word salad this dude threw out there.

Does anyone know what this is even for? Like...I'm pretty sure you have to volunteer for surety in any form, because it'd be pretty weird if the court could ORDER another person to shove their money into a deal they hadn't somehow otherwise agreed to.

...and...the statutes and codes are statues and codes... Isn't color of law is involved when an official is doing something that appears to be official but may not be?

Like, statutes and codes can't be the SEMBLANCE of law...they ARE the fucking law?

How can you claim to not be under the law and then certify something under penalty of perjury UNDER THE FUCKING LAWS YOU JUST SAID HAVE NO JURIS-MY-DICTION OVER YOU?!?

If this was chanted in unison by a few people at once, it'd resemble a bad tv show witch's "spell".

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[–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago

It's kinda funny how he simultaneously has no faith in the institution of the United States but also has full faith to the point where he thinks that they'll just take his words at face value.

[–] Red_October@lemmy.world 28 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Boy, how neat would it be if you could just demand the court drop all charges against you because you choose to not be subject to them? I have to wonder what these SovCit nutjobs think is the reason the rest of the population doesn't do this. Do they honestly believe they're just smarter? In possession of some secret knowledge that most people just don't have? How do you look at the entire rest of the population and think "No, they're all just wrong, I'm the only one who knows."

[–] Got_Bent@lemmy.world 21 points 2 years ago

Boy, how neat would it be if you could just demand the court drop all charges against you because you choose to not be subject to them?

I mean, that's what our former president keeps trying to do. Seems like they're just following his lead.

[–] ieatpillowtags@lemm.ee 15 points 2 years ago

Do they honestly believe they're just smarter? In possession of some secret knowledge that most people just don't have?

Yes, this is what they believe.

How do you look at the entire rest of the population and think "No, they're all just wrong, I'm the only one who knows."

I think narcissism in most cases.

[–] edgemaster72@lemmy.world 26 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Disappointed it didn't continue rhyming after the first two clauses. Maybe that's the trick they're missing to make their legal mumbo jumbo magic work.

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[–] thrawn@lemmy.world 20 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I used to see the insane people sub but it was filled with a lot of not fun to watch insane people. Sovcits are endless entertainment though. I’ve enjoyed this version of the community more than any other, if it ever starts getting a lot of other traffic, I hope you make a dedicated sovcit community

[–] smashboy@kbin.social 6 points 2 years ago

I agree, some of it was really grim, or people with legitimate mental illnesses. Sovcits though, 🍿

[–] BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago

I used to try posting sovcits there but nobody seemed to care for them too much. And yes I sure will make a Lemmy version of AmIBeingDetained!

[–] Kayel@aussie.zone 19 points 2 years ago

"Order the judge..."

Next on how to receive the maximum

[–] aturtlesdream@lemmy.world 12 points 2 years ago

This reminds me of when some idiot gets their hands on a thesaurus. Then, they try to swap out words randomly to make themselves seem smarter, and instead, it comes out total gibberish. Joey from friends comes to mind

[–] blazeknave@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago

All dimensions.

Jfc

[–] PP_BOY_@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Writing cadence of Chris Chan. I am the TRUE and HONEST Socerign citizen and that dang dirty UNITED STATES CORPORATION has no jurisdiction over ME

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[–] Municipal0379@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Missed a black out on the last name.

[–] BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Ok I fixed it, sorry.

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[–] YaksDC@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago

The classic red thumbprint is often their own blood. 🤦

[–] Doorbook@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Why they don't make their own state or country?

[–] VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago

Because they think they are a country.

[–] WaxedWookie@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago

Because their whole shtick is wanting all the benefits of living in a state/country, but they're "smart" enough to "avoid" all the downsides. Taxes are something paid by a dumb someone else for their benefit, and laws are for their genius selves to wield against others that don't have the "brilliant legal mind" they do.

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