this post was submitted on 20 Jan 2024
88 points (77.5% liked)

News

31764 readers
2743 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil


Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.


2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.


Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.


Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.


5. Only recent news is allowed.


Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.


6. All posts must be news articles.


No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.


7. No duplicate posts.


If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.


8. Misinformation is prohibited.


Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.


9. No link shorteners.


The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.


10. Don't copy entire article in your post body


For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

If Kenneth Eugene Smith is brought to the Alabama death chamber to face execution next week for his role in the 1988 murder-for-hire of a pastor's wife, the state plans to use an untested and untried method to end his life, suffocating him with a stream of nitrogen gas to be delivered through a face mask.

In a federal appeals court Friday, Smith's lawyers sought to block it, arguing that not only have Smith's constitutional rights been violated, but that he could be subjected to an agonizing death and that most of the details surrounding the state's new execution protocol "deserve more scrutiny."

The use of nitrogen gas will be a capital punishment first, even though it has not only been denounced by some medical professionals but also by veterinarians who oppose its use on animals. In 2020, the American Veterinary Medical Association advised against the use of nitrogen gas as a way to euthanize most mammals, calling it "distressing." One of the few uses of nitrogen gas in animal euthanasia is with chickens.

The United Nations' Office of The High Commissioner for Human Rights has expressed alarm, saying in a statement that the untested method "could amount to torture or other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment under international human rights law."

all 49 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 54 points 2 years ago (3 children)

This is so dumb I can't get my head around it. Put a man in a chamber, flood it with N2, painless, easy death. Hell, he even gets to go out high as a kite!

Are we all so ignorant that this isn't obvious?! FFS, I remember a tragedy where two teens died fucking in a giant helium balloon. They didn't know they were dying.

CO2 overload is what triggers the choking/suffering response. Our bodies have no way to detect a lack of O2. We'll happily breathe any non-noxious gas, as long as it's not CO2. Hypoxia don't sound like a bad way to go. .45ACP to the skull comes a close second, but I'd like to fade out stoned, given the chance.

Signed: Old guy with mild emphysema from smoking 20-years. I don't get short of oxygen, I get short trying to pump the CO2 out.

[–] FaceDeer@kbin.social 14 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Unfortunately, for many proponents of the death penalty suffering is the goal.

[–] derf82@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

It’s not the proponents arguing against it.

[–] derf82@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago

It is death penalty opponents that are against it.

The closest death penalty opponents have gotten to eliminating it is getting drug companies to stop supplying the traditional lethal injection drugs. With that, executions have ground to a near halt, as alternatives do not work as well and has been challenged.

But nitrogen is easy to obtain and painless. So if it gets used, there goes the need for drug companies. So opponents have taken to outlandish and disingenuous arguments claiming it is dangerous and painful despite plenty of evidence to the contrary. Once it is used for the first time, the experimental argument is dead. So they are desperate to avoid breaking the seal, as it were, on nitrogen asphyxiation.

Of course vets are against it. They have no difficulty getting the necessary drugs, and they have no desire to add new equipment for it.

[–] ryannathans@aussie.zone 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Nitrogen doesn't make you high.. you're probably thinking of N2O, nitrous oxide.

[–] Poach@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Lack of oxygen will get you high. Look up hypoxia.

[–] ryannathans@aussie.zone -3 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I wouldn't really call that high

[–] QuinceDaPence@kbin.social 10 points 2 years ago

Euphoria and warmth are two really common symptoms of hypoxia.

But even then people who have dies in confined, oxygen-deficient environments, as long as they aren't high CO2, don't even realize anything is up until they pass out.

[–] Pat_Riot@lemmy.today 1 points 2 years ago

In diving it's called nitrogen narcosis. The effects are very like alcohol except you never get sick.

[–] lennybird@lemmy.world 48 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

The funny thing is short of overdosing on ketamine and morphine, I always thought nitrogen gas would be my preferred choice to go as it sidesteps the hypercapnia that leads to the urge to need to breathe.

That being said, they could always build a pressure chamber to simulate even a fraction of the pressure differential the titan submersible went through and that is proven to be painless and faster than the point the brain can process.

Or, you know, just not use the death penalty.

[–] assembly@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I think the most humane method would probably be the combo you highlighted. So like morphine and ketamine and then nitrous to ensure that once the individual enters shallow breathing the nitrous would complete the objective. I can’t imagine there is a more relaxing and stress free way to die than that.

[–] Ton@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Of course, the revenge driven justice system is not looking for the most humane way to kill someone. The cruelty is the point.

[–] derf82@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Except that is exactly why they are wanting to do nitrogen asphyxiation.

[–] Cogency@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

They aren't doing it willingly. The drug manufacturers are no longer supplying the cocktails for lethal injections and the medical field is refusing to take part in the act.

[–] derf82@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Yes, so they chose an alternative that is meant to be as painless as the old method.

[–] Cogency@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

They chose a mechanical non- biological method that could proceed without the medical community, again this isn't out of benevolence, they were forced to act less cruelly because their hands were forced by the medical community.

And the old method was often misadministered so it was often as painful as they could make it. Link I have no doubt someone will find a way to make suffocation painful. Even if the method on the books is painless. The cruelty is/ was/ and always has been the point.

[–] derf82@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

You do love straw men.

No, if they wanted to be cruel, they could bring back hanging, the firing squad, or the electric chair. This is better than those.

You are making accusations with zero proof.

[–] Cogency@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)
[–] derf82@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

That doesn’t support your allegation that it was deliberately made painful. Hell, your own link says Ohio postponed executions to reevaluate. You are adding malice solely on the bases your your opinion.

[–] Cogency@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

It was deliberately made painful by the reports of the survivors. They took what was a deliberately painless set of injections and would administer massive overdoses of the killing portion of the cocktail without administering the sedative portion. I don't want to remember how I know this. There were various reports of individual staff members overseeing the cases, included in how I've come to this conclusion.

[–] derf82@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

What survivors? The article is about finding from autopsies.

And even then, they have no knowledge of anyone’s motives.

[–] Cogency@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)
[–] derf82@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

They couldn’t find a vein. There is no evidence for your allegations.

And then shouldn’t you be happier with this new method? No need to find a vein.

[–] Cogency@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

And I wonder why that is?
Could it be that no study is allowed on executions. I am talking about individual reports in the medical community . https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/facts-and-research/dpic-reports/in-depth/behind-the-curtain-secrecy-and-the-death-penalty-in-the-united-states

I am not happier with any method to execute someone because the cruelty was always the point, not rehabilitation and not deterrence.

[–] Cogency@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

How'd that execution turn out? Oh it took 22 minutes to die.

[–] Chickenstalker@lemmy.world 23 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Simply chop his head with a guillotine. Almost zero percent chance of fucking up, quick and painless. No, that one story about the slapped head is bunkum. Standing up suddenly can cause you to faint due to low blood pressure. Having your neck cut off results in a much more sudden drop in blood pressure to the brain. People just don't want to see the messy blood spilled. If you want to execute someone, deal with it.

[–] Stalinwolf@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 years ago

Yeah? Bet he can't burp his ABCs!

[–] intensely_human@lemm.ee -1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I’d be in favor of some kind of head ripping off machine myself.

[–] HelixDab2@lemm.ee 9 points 2 years ago (1 children)

We can have a solid, productive argument about the way that they death penalty is applied, and how it's more likely to be used in racist and classist ways. (My stance is that some people need to be completely removed from the possibility of being returned to society; the overwhelming majority of the people that fall into that extreme risk category are white, and almost always have famous pseudonyms, like Co-Ed Killer, Night Stalker, Zodiac, Green River Killer, Father John Geoghan, and so on.)

You can't argue in good faith that nitrogen is anything other than a very soft way to die.

[–] ziggurat@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I agree with your comment, I just want to point out that I am explicitly against capital punishment, without disagreeing with you. And also that the reason for the demographic spread is that this is the demographic spread of the community you are talking about.

Also, while I am against capital punishment, if it had to be used, it should always be nitrogen gas, it is not untested, it is very well tested to cause no pain what so ever to subjects almost suffocating from it.

[–] HelixDab2@lemm.ee 1 points 2 years ago

And also that the reason for the demographic spread is that this is the demographic spread of the community you are talking about.

I think that you misunderstand. There are very, very few (known) black serial killers. The only one in the US that I'm aware of is questionable; Wayne Williams was convicted of the murders of two adults, but there was very little connecting him directly to the other murders that the Atlanta Police Dept. claimed he committed. My argument would be that, outside of serial killers and serial child rapists, use of the death penalty should be very, very rare, given that the risks to society are very low compared to the possibility that they could ever be released or escape. E.g., someone like Ed Kemper is always going to be a danger to society, until he's dead.

[–] Vytle@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Daily reminder that execution costs taxpayers more than life in prison.

[–] filcuk@lemmy.zip 4 points 2 years ago

This was surprising to me, but a quick search tells me it's because the cases need more people and often don't end up by capital punishment anyway, thus 'wasting' a lot of resources.

[–] Mango@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Welp. Here's hard undeniable proof that CBSnews is absolutely worthless. They're lying and putting together as many bad adjectives together as they can to make the most humane possible execution method sound absolutely terrible. This is literally the way I want to die. It's simply hypoxia without the CO2 spike that makes you feel like you're suffocating. You get a good buzz this way. FFS, I literally hyperventilate and then hold my breath while jerking it for this effect!

Fuck CBS and all the people trying to make this look bad. The only bad about it is that we're still killing people with a legal system that convicts innocents like me.

[–] riodoro1@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I literally hyperventilate and then hold my breath while jerking it for this effect!

Shit, thanks for letting us know I guess.

[–] GilgameshCatBeard@lemmy.ca 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

There’s a pretty fail-safe way to avoid this happening.

[–] Deceptichum@kbin.social 25 points 2 years ago

Don’t have the death penalty? Agreed.

[–] Treczoks@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

The top cringe is that government mandated murder still exist in this century.