it will accomplish nothing.
conservatives dont care about facts, or policy or governing. its me me me me and nothing else.
a debate will be ignored by both sides as superfluous.
this post was submitted on 08 Jan 2024
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Policy and governance largely don't matter since it is "I dunno, I'll try to avoid overly fucking over The American People while getting some stuff better?" versus "I am going to turn this into gilead (just much stupider since a literary, or even tv, reference is too much for that moron"
But I do think it would "help" to have at least one "debate". I know a couple people who were really worried about Biden and were buying into the "he has dementia and is weak" propaganda. When he thought trump was attacking Beau and went off on him... that convinced them.
interesting perspective, thank you!
Trump will just talk over Biden and scream about shit that doesnt make sense or some hate speech.
While I basically agree on the outcome, I worry that it will lead to more absence of presidential debates which feels problematic in terms of keeping people in echo chambers . I mean I don't seriously think anyones mind will change but generally hearing it out anyway is....maybe productive? Idk
I don't see the point, they are running for two different offices.
Biden wants to be President
Trump wants to be a ChristoFascist Dictator
https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/trump-2024-christian-right-truth-social-rcna132082
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/11/12/trump-rally-vermin-political-opponents/
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/donald-trumps-dictator-promise-is-no-joke
There really isn't anything to "debate". His fan base can't be reasoned out of a position they never reasoned themselves into in the first place.
So what's the point?
The point as i see it would be to maintain decorum and keep the structure and tradition of our election process rather than letting it continue to degrade.
Problem is Trump shows no interest in decorum, structure or tradition. Neither do his followers.
Treating them as though they do elevates them.
I think the time of American political debates, and to an extent American democracy, is over.
Arguably, political debates are meaningless today. When they were hosted by the League of Women Voters and the candidates had to actually answer questions, it was interesting and potentially informative. Now, it’s scripted to the point of being useless. Candidates will refuse to answer questions and simply repeat talking points prepared ahead of time and which have already been aired in countless political ads. Candidates like Trump won’t even go that far, but treat it like a campaign rally where they’re playing a professional wrestling character.
Trump decided there was no need to debate in the primaries. He’s the chosen one. I don’t see why the democrats should bother to debate either. Biden’s not going to win or lose based on the debate. It’s going to come down to turnout. I can’t imagine that there’s anyone on the fence other than whether they’re going to bother to vote or not.
Biden would be better served actually making impactful public statements that invigorate people to turn out. Trump is constantly trying to win in the court of public opinion, and if Biden doesn't meet him on that field, Trump wins by default.
The only way this works is if each candidate has 1 minute to answer and is then MUTED at the 1 minute cut off, AND for the duration of the next person's turn. Further, each should be seated in a sound-proof box, with a light that is turned off so that no-one can hear them or read their lips unless the microphone and light are on
I like this kind of idea, but to be honest, I’m still uncertain of the value added by the debate format.
A president doesn’t pass policies by debate. They formulate an agenda and work with policy experts to construct a means to achieving those items. They form a cabinet, which ideally consist of people skilled in management and with enough subject matter expertise that they can provide a similar approach to the management of their various departments, and so on.
Debates are simply theatrical performances that are not replicated nor relevant to the job of the executive. They have scripted lines that they try to fit in, they’re coached on talking points and how to deflect on subjects their handlers don’t want them to talk about.
I vastly prefer policy positions published in detail and unscripted interviews with professional journalists who are not looking to protect their access but rather to both clarify points the candidates have made and more importantly to bring up issues that are relevant but which the candidates have avoided.
To be crude, I literally don’t give a fuck that the line “I knew John F Kennedy, and you’re no John F Kennedy” was one of the best retorts in (vice) presidential debate history, and anyone who would vote on that kind of thing - in my opinion - is not properly exercising their choice.
I’m okay with stump speeches - I think they’re still pretty useless for many of the same reasons - but they do give a sense of the personality of the candidate and their approach to addressing the public. That is an important factor - the charisma effect - and I think we should keep them around.
Something tells me we should not be giving the guy who said he'd be a dictator "for a day" time on the air.
Giving him a microphone on national television is a terrible idea. He will absolutely use that time to spew hatred, lies and the most absurd conspiracy theories.
His moron supporters will eat it all up, not unlike how puppies eat their own shit.
Every major news network wants this debate to happen. Think about the outrage money, it angrily prints itself!
He should refuse on the grounds that Trump is an illegitimate candidate who attempted an insurrection on Jan. 6th. He should say that he is willing to debate serious candidates, but that Trump should be disqualified from running per the 14th Amendment.
Why does everyone assume Biden would lose in a debate with Trump? He already beat him at the polls once. Yea, Biden is four years older than last time but so is Trump.
If anything, if Trump is declared ineligible to run, that's when Biden needs to worry. Because it's one thing to be debating someone your own age, and another thing entirely to be debating someone 30 years younger.
It's not about whether Biden would win or lose a debate. It's the fact that winning or losing won't make any difference, because the MAGA crowd will only see the heavily edited and clipped version that is shown on Fox.
There's also the worry that agreeing to a debate could be considered a tacit acceptance of Trump's elligibility. If Biden agrees to debate with Trump, he's also agreeing that Trump can run for president and deserves to be on the debate floor.
Biden pretty handily beat Trump in the 2020 debates. Though conservatives just ran around with clips of Trump running his mouth during the debate and claiming that meant he won.
I think that it’s not people thinking Biden would lose. I don’t see any point in it because the MAGA crowd don’t want to listen to anything Biden says so why even give them any potential ammo?
It’s basically what Trump is doing now with the Republican primary debates. No one says anything bad about Trump and they just keep attacking each other. Of course if Biden doesn’t debate, some will say Biden is too afraid but just turn it around on them and ask why isn’t Trump at any of the primary debates?
It's not just whether or not Biden would win.
It's "Can Biden and Trump stay coherent standing for 3 hours in an unscripted environment"? Does it matter if Biden wins if the match was predominantly two elders bickering over whether or not we should pull out of Iraq? Both of their ages are a point of concern and the complete lack of live, unscripted, hardball interviews does little to quell that fear.
Polls have never been this bad for a returning president in decades. Historically support for third party candidates have decreased as election cycles get closer but at the same time, you've never had candidates this hated. Third parties are absolutely going to eat up votes from both parties this election year, and a horrid debate performance, even if a win, will make the issue worse.
Win/lose isn't even a thing in these debates, it's a meaningless political spectacle which by it's nature benefits Trump because he is the political embodiment of this.
“If he gets the nomination, Republican primary voters will have given him legitimacy. I mean, we don’t hand it out like gummy bears or something,” he said.
What kind of debate? Trump shouldn't even be allowed on the ballots, much less to breathe air outside of prison walls.
And since when exactly do conservatives care about reality? It’s a waste of time. Those who voted for Trump in 2020 will vote for him in 2024 (except the few geniuses who needed a fucking insurrection to stop worshipping him).
Or the ones who need a ressurection thanks to Covid denial.
Imagine bringing one of them back to life and when asked about the afterlife he just abuses the spotlight to ramble about Hunter Bidens Laptop.
They're idiots, then. Debates don't matter, but NOT going to a debate if your opponent does/will matters.
As far as Biden taking on Trump, that matchup will be fine, just about the same as last time with less COVID.
ABSOLUTELY NOT. GOOD GOD MAN, ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR DAMNED MIND?!?
Holy shit yes he should. Let people see how unhinged Trump is compared to someone like Biden
We did. We saw it all. We saw it live on TV over and over again.
His fanbase does not care.
The wrestle with a dirty pig quote comes to mind.
Yes and who won that election? Right now Trump is in the lead because not everyone is as politically engaged as we are. Reminding those folks of how bad Trump is should be a priority
My question is... would Trump even choose to participate in the debates if he (inevitably) wins the Republican nomination? He's refused to even engage with the primary debates in his own party and is still leagues ahead of any other candidate in the polls.
If he doesn't, I hope Biden takes part anyway and that Trump gets empty chaired. They could either invite some third party (Libertarian, Communist, etc) or independent candidates to give Biden someone to debate with, or give Biden a fully uncontested soapbox to ramble with the debate moderator. The latter would be hilarious to watch and would truly show what a farce this election is becoming.
Have a camera cut to an empty podium occasionally and I'd get a good chuckle.
I feel like we should leave debates for coherent candidates
No, we shouldn't.
If they're incoherent, we need it front and center for everyone to see.
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Fucking roast his orange, son-of-a-chimp ass.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
But privately they concede they are counting on Trump collapsing under the weight of more than 90 felony charges and his penchant for conflict and outlandish claims turning off women and swing voters.
But the biggest concern is that putting Trump next to Biden on a stage and giving him equal time before a national audience would have some legitimizing effect on a candidate who regularly makes incendiary remarks and continues to claim that the 2020 election was stolen.
Some Democrats argue that Trump shouldn’t even appear on the ballot because they believe he violated the 14th Amendment, which bars anyone who took an oath to support the Constitution and later engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the country from holding federal office.
Wallace, who was a Fox News anchor at the time, later blamed Trump for bearing “the primary responsibility for what happened” and expressed frustration that voters nationwide didn’t get “the debate they wanted” or “deserved.”
The lead strategist of former President Clinton’s 1992 presidential campaign acknowledged that Biden’s age is an issue but warned that avoiding a debate with Trump would only put a brighter spotlight on it.
Democratic strategist Steve Jarding said Trump lost any leverage in demanding multiple general-election debates by refusing to face his GOP challengers, including Florida Gov.
The original article contains 1,397 words, the summary contains 212 words. Saved 85%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
The joke here is American politics has degraded to this level.
An old man that can barely run the world's most powerful nation
Another old man that wants to be a dictator.
An entire nation that sees nothing wrong with this.
The whole country's a mess.
An entire nation that sees nothing wrong with this
Excuse you
Oh once you guys get tired of the liberals whatever tory you elect will put Harper to shame. You've got plenty of fascists up there too.
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