this post was submitted on 19 Jul 2023

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SNOOcalypse - document, discuss, and promote the downfall of Reddit.

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Reddit invites mods to “feedback” conversations with the admins (www.theverge.com)

submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by lvxferre@lemmy.ml to c/snoocalypse@lemmy.ml

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Two IMO on-point excerpts of the article:

The highest-ranked replies are very critical of the post. “What good is our feedback when reddit seems perfectly happy to ignore all of it?” wrote one user. “What’s the point?” Another pointed out that Huffman called mods “landed gentry.” “Show, don’t tell,” wrote another user — to which the admin replied, “Agreed.”

“A beginning of what?” replied one user. “This solves nothing, and just wastes everybody’s time.”

Reddit's administration is sounding more and more like an abusive SO trying to gaslight you into staying in the relationship. "Baby I'll listen to you, I swear."

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[–] Seditious_Delicious@lemmy.world 92 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The irony is that while Reddit tried to commercialise what it's users perceive (whether accurately or not) as a community. It's like your local picnic spot or doggy park that you've been going to for years all of a sudden started charging an entry fee. That alienates consumers.

The unfortunate truth is that Reddit could have ended up being a very profitable respected business had the leadership decided to monetise it's venture in a different model.

Ultimately consumers have had their fill with the perceived corporate greed culture and in this author's view is the main drive away from Reddit by early adopters to other platforms such as this one.

Time will tell if the middle majority will follow in time.

[–] lvxferre@lemmy.ml 25 points 2 years ago (2 children)

It’s like your local picnic spot or doggy park that you’ve been going to for years all of a sudden started charging an entry fee. That alienates consumers.

That's a great analogy, specially if the hypothetical doggy park (or picnic spot) had multiple kiosks selling stuff - so the park owners already had some profit. As soon as the fee pops up, the owners do get a bit more short-term profit... but then people stop visiting the park, and that reduces the associated profit from both the fee and the kiosks, making the park even less profitable in the long run. And the alienated customers might not come back, even if the park owners realise the mistake and get rid of the fee.

Time will tell if the middle majority will follow in time.

My bet is that they'll leave. Not due to the alienation, but because the content there will become trash. They'll simply disengage, and their disengagement will snowball into more disengagement.

[–] athos77@kbin.social 9 points 2 years ago (1 children)

And the alienated customers might not come back, even if the park owners realise the mistake and get rid of the fee.

This is exactly what happens most of the time. Check out the short Twitter thread on the thermocline of trust.

[–] Iunnrais@lemm.ee 4 points 2 years ago

This is a better link to explain that concept: https://every.to/p/breaching-the-trust-thermocline-is-the-biggest-hidden-risk-in-business

[–] Cybersteel@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago

Like it wasn't alr bad years prior.

[–] mysoulishome@lemmy.world 89 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Fire Steve Huffman and install a CEO who is capable of even pretending to care about balancing the needs of users and (potential) shareholders. It’s too late to ask for feedback.

[–] lvxferre@lemmy.ml 34 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I feel like they might actually do this. It wouldn't be the first time that they use a CEO to implement unpopular stuff, then fire him to say "everything is fine now" - cue to Ellen Pao.

[–] mysoulishome@lemmy.world 24 points 2 years ago

They should. At least half of this debacle was created by the mind-numbingly horrible communication straight from his mouth (or fingers). Even if they just said look guys our CEO is dick, he shouldn’t have insulted the moderators and passionate users who loved apps…it isn’t ok snd we’re sorry. Even just that would be something.

They intended on crushing third party apps, they don’t care about users or moderators…that will never be different. The lying, insults and douchbagery was the cherry on top.

I used to browse Reddit with my Adblock turned off, man, so they would make money. The people that are the most pissed cared the most…

[–] PM_Your_Nudes_Please@lemmy.world 20 points 2 years ago

The irony is that Pao was brought in to implement changes that Spez wanted. Remember he used to own it, then sold it and “stepped down” as CEO to bring Pao in. Then he took the seat back again after she left. But this time they just skipped that step entirely, because Spez has just been making the unpopular changes himself.

So I don’t actually think it’s the case this time. If it were, Spez wouldn’t be CEO during all of these changes. I think Spez is simply trying to cash out when the company goes public later this year. He doesn’t care what the users think of the changes, because he’s entirely focused on the investor valuation. He’s doing everything he can think of to claw profit out of a site that has never been profitable, simply so he can point to this quarter during the IPO and go “Look! Reddit makes a lot of money! It’s worth a lot, and the stocks I’m offering should sell for a lot too!”

[–] HughJanus@lemmy.ml 17 points 2 years ago

Fire Steve Huffman

This will happen eventually. Just like Ellen Pao. Reddit will fire him but change nothing.

[–] HughJanus@lemmy.ml 87 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

So, we’ve all had a... time on Reddit lately,” said the admin. “And I’m here to recognize it, acknowledge that our relationship has been tested, and begin the ‘now what?’ conversation.”

I love how they're just acting like they've just had an argument and now it's over and they're ready to move on after changing absolutely nothing.

It's like being verbally abused at home and you walk out, come back the next day and your partner is like "glad you got that out of your system" and expecting you to go back to "normal" without any sort of apology.

[–] OpenStars@kbin.social 23 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Argument with who even? We all are over here, having already left!? :-P

There comes a point where those that choose to remain are just asking for it, maybe?

[+] doom_and_gloom@lemmy.ml 12 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

[deleted]

[–] OpenStars@kbin.social 9 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Judging from posts, the main difficulty of Lemmy is that you have to actually read something to make full use of it. How to pick an instance, how to subscribe, unsubscribe, curate your feed, etc. Then Kbin throws in the curveball that upvotes = boosts while real upvotes = nothing much really, and so on. Granted, it does lack polish.

People looking for daddy spez to take care of them really are hoping for whatever handouts he is willing to offer - they'll take it, suck it up, and LIKE it, b/c they do not choose to stand on their own two feet.

[+] doom_and_gloom@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

[deleted]

[–] OpenStars@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

What was there to learn about Reddit though? Yeah how to use markup but even then you could use the GUI way and then learn from what it did and type it up on your own, but anyway that is optional. Mainly in Reddit you see that there are "subs" and you "subscribe" to them, but if you have ever used a discussion forum before the barrier to entry is extremely small.

While on Kbin/Lemmy I find that ~75% of the time when I want to upvote/boost/comment to something it takes me to a new page saying just "Error" (no explanation as to what that is, just that). I am pretty sure that it due to me taking time to read something, then minutes later wanting to interact while still on the same page, but the server now does not recognize me, and if I refresh the page then it works (except when it does not, and sometimes even forgets my login entirely, but to notice that even occurred, on a mobile at least I have to scroll over on the top bar, but no don't click there b/c that scrolls something else entirely! yes, you have to click right there in the sweet spot, to even notice that that happened). The server instability on Lemmy/Kbin, the overall lack of polish, and let us not forget that to even create an account one has to get through the hurdle of understanding the entire Fediverse system, part of which is a lie b/c while it says that you can eventually migrate your account (with all of its threads/etc.), that does not actually exist yet -> all of this will drive casual users away, who do not have the "early adopter" mindset. Non-technical people especially. Like when they search, but cannot find what they want, they are out, immediately.

Oh, and subs that in Reddit have multiple posts per day or even each hour, here have ~1-2 per week, e.g. https://lemmy.world/c/dataisbeautiful vs. the original r/dataisbeautiful (view on Tedd.it while it lasts).

Notably, I do not blame them - this place does not offer as good of a service to meet their end goals right now, and they are aiming for what works best for them, as should be expected? Maybe one day we will catch up. In some ways I actually hope that we never do - b/c when toddlers/children/teens (I mean emotional, regardless of physical age) start coming here and filling up every comment section on every post (thread) with their emotional vomit ("I LIKE that!" "^This", "Yup"), it will destroy the functionality of this place the same as it did to Reddit, entirely regardless of spez and his actions. Ironically I do not mind it so much and while I was there I started doing the same, to fit in - it is what it is, and like if this were a Discord server with moment-by-moment chatter, it would be appropriate even; but then where will there exist a place that is not like that, where people can have higher-level discussions, even if they take place more slowly over months rather than seconds to minutes? And involve PARAGRAPHS rather than short sub-word snippets?

So, it is what it is, good and bad at the same time:-).

[–] CommunityLinkFixer@lemmings.world 2 points 2 years ago

Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn't work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: !dataisbeautiful@lemmy.world

[–] HughJanus@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 years ago

The 95% of people who didn't have the good sense to leave

[–] TonyTonyChopper@mander.xyz 4 points 2 years ago

gives me conniptions

[–] fujiwood@lemmy.world 68 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

A community garden(Reddit) with bad, broken or non existent tools.

Volunteer workers(Mods) bring their own tools(3rd party apps) to maintain the garden. Other volunteers(Reddit OC contributing users) plant seeds, water and harvest the garden. Other non-volunteers (Non-OC contributing users who only consume media) benefit, leech and take home food.

Garden owners(Reddit) decide to charge tool companies to allow their tools into the garden(3rd party app makers being charged for API access). Tool companies(3rd party app makers) can't pay exorbitant amounts. Volunteer maintenance workers(Mods) can no longer use outside tools(3rd party apps) to upkeep the garden.

The workers(Mods) become angry and disruptive by limiting access to the garden(Mods privatize and demonetize subreddits).

Non-Contributing leechers become upset. "We don't care about you workers! Give us food!"("No one cares about you Mods! We want to mindlessly consume! Give us media!")

Workers and real gardeners leave to find a better garden (Mods and OC contributors leave to find a better social media platform).

Old garden fills with weeds and dog shit(Reddit fills with reposts and bots).

The End.

[–] ohlaph@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago

Sadly, it is working.

[–] Peruvia@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 years ago

The same mfs who blame mods for spez's decisions will be the one who blame them for that platform's lack of content that they want to consume. Or "moderating too hard and I can't get more content". Once again, I'm glad we're all here and not there anymore.

[–] db2@lemmy.one 67 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Gaslighting is exactly right. They also did a fair amount of goalpost shifting, cited non-existent rules to engage in punitive/retaliatory behavior against anyone who wasn't 100% on the party line, etc.

[–] sim_@beehaw.org 22 points 2 years ago

And don’t forget outright libel against the Apollo dev before he came back with recordings.

[–] ikidd@lemmy.world 22 points 2 years ago

What a tone-deaf fuckwit.

[–] eleitl@lemmy.ml 21 points 2 years ago

Go die in a fire is the only feedback I have.

[–] Millie@lemm.ee 13 points 2 years ago

Why in the world would anyone want to go back to relying on a company that can't be trusted when they can be as independent as they could possibly want to be?

[–] Fantomas@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago (2 children)

How does one monetise when the customer is also the content? They're in a pickle here.

[–] MDKAOD@lemmy.ml 16 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Personally, I don't see it as all that difficult. The platform is an aggregator. They have falsely (naively?) overvalued their product. It's easy to make money by taking care of the community who creates their content, but the key is 'don't be greedy' and they can't help themselves.

The core issue of most US corporations is thst they're chasing impossible long term growth strategies to extract quick money. If they aimed for reasonable growth, people could join the company and plan to retire off their pension. Tech doesn't do that kind of 'old business bullshirt'

[–] ohlaph@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago

term

They have a 5 bil valuation. They vould lose 50% value and still be worth a lot. They are trying to trim the fat to make their conversation rates and ratios increase as to pump up their valuation for their IPO, then probably dip.

[–] Auzy@beehaw.org 10 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Maybe they should actually pay the mods. That's the only way they will be able to get them back on their side after the way they were treated

[–] Ryantific_theory@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

*gasp*

But that would cost money! Think of the investors!

[–] GoodEye8@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago

"but what if AI could be the moderator" - some MBA probably.

[–] BaldProphet@kbin.social 8 points 2 years ago (1 children)

It's a trap.

[–] lvxferre@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 years ago (1 children)

...are we still reviving old maymays?

[–] BaldProphet@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago

That one is timeless.

[–] qwet@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago

there's no upside to reengaging a narcissist, that's how i see the reddit exec team fot the last 10 yrs. they don't exist anymore to my mind.

[–] qwet@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

there's no upside to reengaging a narcissist, that's how i see the reddit exec team fot the last 10 yrs. they don't exist anymore to my mind.

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