Is Microsoft working on a compatibility layer like Apple did? If no then 2024 is just another x86_64 year filled with bullshit news and hype train conductors.
this post was submitted on 25 Dec 2023
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There’s already a compatibility layer. Microsoft had one before Rosetta 2 was available. You can test it yourself with many windows on arm dev builds that exists, or with a Mac running windows in a VM.
Verdict; not as good as Apple (not sure how it compares with the one from Linux) but good enough. https://beebomal.pages.dev/posts/apple-s-rosetta-2-vs-windows-x86-emulation-explained/
It isn’t as good because Rosetta 2 exploits some custom features built into the their M processors. Specifically, there is a special mode that strengthens the memory model, which is critical for both performance and correctness when it comes to executing multithreaded x86 programs on ARM.
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The CPU and processing power benefits would be great, but if I'm going to lose software support then I'm only going to do it for RISC V.
Yaaaah, came here to something something RISC-V ^.^ One of these days I'll have a RISC-V system. I'll have no actual use for it but I'll love it stubbornly just because :D
Anyway I'm gonna be over here daydreaming about RISC-V taking over the world instead of ARM. Bwehehehehe.
(Edited to fix my ^.^-face)
Fundamentally, I'm not sure Qualcomm is the brand I'd trust to lead the world off of x86.
I understand nobody actually likes Qualcomm products in the cellular space, but they're stuck with them due to patent minefields. That's not really a great vibe to bring in when trying to compete against known-quantity x86 vendors.
I figured we'd see homogenous CPUs-- either in the same socket or as an addon module, so you can cast off some stuff to ARM or RISC-V but keep big x86 for games and heavy closed-source software, then flip to RISC-V main with x86 addon cards, and finally emulation.
Sort of thinking about a Pinetab-V, but even the flaky, doesn't suspend right 20% of the time, wigi was weird on every OS except OpenBSD, Ryzen 2700U it would replace demolishes it. The Lichee Console looked neat with the EEE PC sizing and Trackpoint, but it's way pricier.
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They're going to have to get the emulation working better for x86/x64 software. And they're going to have to get the driver situation sorted -- which likely means requiring ARM drivers alongside x86/x64 drivers in order to meet certification for having a Windows sticker or WHQL certification to gradually build up the list of supported hardware.
How can it be both the year of ARM and the year of the linux desktop?
Linux runs great on ARM 😉
Armbian is a really cool project. So is batocera. I have a few SBCs to play with.
Linux and ARM are not mutually exclusive.
Not a chance. We have several more years of x86 dominance.
I don’t know what the author was smoking, but nobody that knows what x86 and ARM are would reasonably say x86 is anywhere near its end. I want it to be, fuck I want it to be, but I’m also not stupid enough to think it’s happening even remotely soon.
I don’t care as long as desktops remain modular.
Ampère makes some ARM CPUs that go with modular boards, where you can socket your own CPU, DDR5 RAM, NVMe drives and PCIe accessories.
yeah, least thing I would want is my PC becoming another use and throw mobile phone(it's already happening with mac and hp's elitebook).
Nope, I'll never run windows on anything other than x86 (for my desktop).
I'm very happy with my ARM MBP for work, but I occasionally pull up software written decades ago (either music production plugins or games typically) on windows and it still runs, some of the companies that wrote that software no longer exist, so no first party patches will be coming.
I'll never run Windows.
I'll never run
Fair play, if you don't need the compatibility with Windows drivers and software, there's no real reason to choose it in 2023.
Windows 11 on ARM will probably that software without modification.
Assuming it runs on Windows 11 at all...
For all the informed technical analysis and debates about this, the vast majority of consumers don't care about any of this stuff, and they're the ones who will decide this "year of the whatever." The worse option technically speaking has won out many times in the past.
Consumers will choose more battery life, all else being equal.
Tell me you never used Arm based system for daily drive without telling me you never used Arm based system. General software compatibility is not there and PC is not only on Windows or Mac. Sure on Mac they have enterprise support for their user. By having more power (bruteforcing) to run the emulation simply does not mean the software run flawless.
Maybe I'm a bit bias since I'm comparing it with SBCs (but thats what is affordable). As someone who have Raspberry Pi 4 and Orange Pi 5, the situation is a bit different. Raspberry Pi have a well supported system by communities and the devs, meanwhile on Orange Pi 5 some drivers are not released by the Orange Pi/left to the dust if there are no maintainer, not to mention if you want specific build of binary which not covered by repo/ppa, you have to build yourself from source, and the GPU driver situation for OPi5 which not yet have Vulkan support and sub par performance on Linux meanwhile on RPi5 they have Vulkan support 2 weeks after release.
All the top posts here are people saying it won’t happen.
I was at the store over the weekend and saw a full display of chromebooks. Someone purchased one right in front of me.
I’m sure there’s a market for both technologies to exist at the same time.
They're purchasing the OS, not the CPU/SOC architecture.
Microsoft doesn't have the same loyalty that Apple does. They can't afford to release an ARM OS that isn't already supported by all major software applications, and majority support for normal x86 apps, with assistance and roadmap to completely bridge the gap.
When the transition is seamless, or 90% seamless, the architecture won't matter, and customers won't even realize they've switched.
If they release ARM hardware that doubles battery life and performance, but doesn't offer a seamless transition, it'll flop. Just like their last attempt did.
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There's a lot of focus on Windows for these types of chips, but Chromebooks are probably the best use case for them right now. ChromeOS runs great on ARM and there's no legacy software to worry about, but they feel kind of slow because the ARM chips they've used have been slow. I'd love an ARM Chromebook that actually rips.
Yeah, no. Still got a huge software issue there.
Lololol no.
Limping along with a wonky hinge on my 5 year old laptop waiting for these to come out. Haven't run windows for years now so I don't think I'll be missing intel much at all. Might have to do some cross compiling for deploying software to intel cloud nodes, but arm VMs for android development will speedy.
Depending on which problem you're experiencing, I've used jb weld to fix it.
JB Weld is magic (as is it's competitor PC7, seems to be the same stuff). I just used it to fix an iPad keyboard - the part holding the iPad cracked near the hinge. Just filled the interior with JB and reassembled (it squeezed some JB out). Crack is still there, but the hinge area is even more rigid now. Of course it'll never come apart again.
I'd like to promote Goop. It's like a super thick rubber cement. There's very little it won't stick to. Very strong. It's pretty much all I use anymore. Oh, and it peels right off when you need to remove it (though it takes some effort).
I've glued phone mounts to the dash with it. Power strips to the underside of the desk. Glued laptops back together when the screw mounts break. Use it for the metal disks on back of phones for magnetic mounts. It's holding L-brackets to the back of the TV so I could put the soundbar on top. Also a bunch of industrial Velcro (the thick plastic stuff) on the back of the TV to hold a wifi router, Bluetooth adapter, USB hub, power supplies, and cable management.
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I've used an ARM Mac for the past 3 years on both macOS and Linux. My trusty M1 Air has been an absolute joy to use. I would like more options for a fast, battery efficient and most importantly fanless laptop, so I'm looking forward to this.
Silly bot, windows go on the walls.
I think this is likely. After dealing with how bad W11 is, MS realized they don't need working software or backwards compatibility to sell units.
Don't care what Windows does. What's going on on Linux here.
Linux has been kinda great with ARM due to devices like the Rasberry Pi. Ubuntu, Fedora, and Manjaro all offer ARM variants
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2024 will be the year of ARM on desktops!
I'm all for it, just don't leave out the DIY market. I would love a socketable ARM platform. Risc-V would be even better.
Wake me up when they make faster ARM than my 5900x
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