this post was submitted on 22 Dec 2023
82 points (100.0% liked)

history

23025 readers
1 users here now

Welcome to c/history! History is written by the posters.

c/history is a comm for discussion about history so feel free to talk and post about articles, books, videos, events or historical figures you find interesting

Please read the Hexbear Code of Conduct and remember...we're all comrades here.

Do not post reactionary or imperialist takes (criticism is fine, but don't pull nonsense from whatever chud author is out there).

When sharing historical facts, remember to provide credible souces or citations.

Historical Disinformation will be removed

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Photo caption: "Two dodecahedra and an icosahedron on display in the Rheinisches Landesmuseum Bonn, Germany."

Roman dodecahedron

A Roman dodecahedron or Gallo-Roman dodecahedron is a small hollow object made of copper alloy which has been cast into a regular dodecahedral shape: twelve flat pentagonal faces, each face having a circular hole of varying diameter in the middle, the holes connecting to the hollow center. Roman dodecahedra date from the 2nd to 4th centuries AD and their purpose remains unknown. They rarely show signs of wear, and do not have any inscribed numbers or letters.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] NephewAlphaBravo@hexbear.net 50 points 2 years ago

"i just think they're neat"

[–] Dirt_Owl@hexbear.net 41 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Sex

Or they're just decorations idk

[–] Great_Leader_Is_Dead@hexbear.net 24 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Or they're just decorations idk

This is what I think but I question, why this particular design? These things were found all over the Empire, why did this particular shape become so popular in Rome? We it some kind of inside joke? Cultural reference? Meme?

[–] FunkyStuff@hexbear.net 27 points 2 years ago

Classical age Big Chungus.

[–] sooper_dooper_roofer@hexbear.net 16 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

This is what I think but I question, why this particular design?

looks cool, hard to make, but not too hard

[–] the_itsb@hexbear.net 20 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I like to think I'm pretty creative, but I'm struggling to figure out how these could possibly benefit a sexual experience, so now I'm wondering what you owls are getting up to out there in the forest with arcane, ancient shapes.

You don't need to tell me, I'm just saying - I strongly suspect you all are doing crazy sex magick rituals out there, and I support it. Lmk if there's anything I can do to help - bells, candles, herbs, wine, whatever.

[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 18 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

The smallest ones are apparently about 1.6 inches wide, so someone could definitely fit it in a couple of orifices if they wanted to for some reason, without trauma from stretching (but probably from cuts and rubbing). With the openings, you could get some string and make a type of bead.

I'm sorry this is really gross and I'm not even into that sort of thing, I was just think of it purely as a creative exercise and then I looked at what I wrote.

[–] sooper_dooper_roofer@hexbear.net 39 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

They were also found commonly in the Pyu states (Burma), Óc Eo (Southern Vietnam), Khao Sam Kaeo (Peninsular Thailand), and Hepu (Guangxi)

https://journals.openedition.org/archeosciences/docannexe/image/2072/img-3.jpg
https://journals.openedition.org/archeosciences/2072

https://go.gale.com/ps/i.do?id=GALE%7CA398627717&sid=googleScholar&v=2.1&it=r&linkaccess=abs&issn=0003598X&p=AONE&sw=w&userGroupName=nysl_oweb&isGeoAuthType=true&aty=geo

If they got there through Roman trade or cultural diffusion, it's interesting how they seemingly skipped over India and China. Peninsular Thailand is a very remote place!

Also the ones from Rome come mostly from France, which is also interesting

I drew a map of the SEA sites they're found in

So it's definitely not a Silk Road trade route, and probably ended up there through Indian ocean trade routes. Yet, they somehow seem to be absent from India.

It may also indicate that the majority of Rome's high-skill blacksmiths came from France. The wiki article states they may have been used as a "test" to display the skill of a blacksmith, which if true, would also mean they had no commercial purpose, and that their presence in SEA was the first time they were sold as items of value. The SEA ones also seem to be more commonly made of gold instead of bronze, which further supports this. The smallest ones in Europe were a small 1.6 inches in diameter, which further supports this, showing off one's metalworking intricacy.

wild inductive theory is that some merchant from Southeast Asia physically went to Europe, maybe even France, saw them, thought they were cool and brought back the idea, eventually developing a market in the local area and spreading it to other SEA states and eventually producing them indigenously. Otherwise it can't be explained why they're absent from India and the Mideast.

[–] LeopardShepherd@hexbear.net 21 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Maybe the people in India and the mideast thought they were trash

[–] sooper_dooper_roofer@hexbear.net 8 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

It's not really possible for thousands of people to all reject something in 2 separate continents (MENA and India) and then have thousands of people spontaneously liking the same thing in 1 different one (Southeast Asia). Differences like that have to stem from the luck of 1 individual.

example: anime was less popular in anglo America and more popular in Latin America. But it still got popular later on, and even during the 90s still enjoyed low level popularity in the US.

It's however very possible for 2 continents to miss something because it was never intended for them to see or buy, while 1 person from another continent accidentally sees it and develops a market for it.

For example, why do westerners buy handmade crafts from India? Because it's different and it looks different and interesting. Meanwhile most of the actual Indian people making those traditionally did so for survival, and you wouldn't see any non-bourgeois people buying those things

Or the idea of Turmeric supplements. Nobody in India takes turmeric supplements, they just eat turmeric. But some westerner saw this and got the idea to market it in his own country as a supplement. same deal

(also it's pronounced TER-MER-ICK not TUMOR-ICK, this is the literal english language even, idk why english speakers pronounce it like that)

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Anxious_Anarchist@hexbear.net 34 points 2 years ago

Idk, they look like they're meant to hold the prince of an alien race imprisoned in an astral realm to me.

[–] Evilsandwichman@hexbear.net 31 points 2 years ago

They were probably used for DnD before Romans discovered numbers; they'd get in an encounter, roll one of these and then point to the top facing section and tell the Coliseum Master "I got one of those". I'd imagine they were probably really eager to finally find numbers to make the whole process much easier.

That or they were still trying to discover lameness; they'd put them on the front doorstep of someone they disliked and it was the starting point of the phrase "you've just been served" except they'd be like "you've just been diced".

[–] tactical_trans_karen@hexbear.net 31 points 2 years ago

The ones with holes are for measuring servings of spaghetti.

[–] Wheaties@hexbear.net 29 points 2 years ago (2 children)

maybe it's how smiths proved their competency?

I can smith to any specification you like, nothing is too complicated! Don't believe me? Just look at my Intricate Thing!

[–] sooper_dooper_roofer@hexbear.net 22 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

They were found in coastal Southeast Asia, but not in India/China/MENA

my inductive theory is that this was a very specific niche market borne from a Southeast Asian merchant who saw these in Europe and adopted the idea to sell them as trinkets back in SEA. The fact that they were never found anywhere else means nobody really thought about selling them. In fact there might have even been a stigma against selling them, if they were used as a test of skill, basically buying your skill instead of earning it.

The SEA ones are also often made of gold, while the European ones are made of bronze. The Europeans who had them valued them, because they were found among coins, but they were usually made of cheaper metal like bronze, which IMO strengthens the "test of skill" argument

[–] ElHexo@hexbear.net 9 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Gold is an easier metal to work with than bronze I believe, to add to your theory

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] mushroom@hexbear.net 17 points 2 years ago (2 children)

i've seen this offered as a potential explanation as well as being used for textiles/sewing in some way that i can't remember

[–] Wheaties@hexbear.net 15 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Oh, yeah the raised noduals at the corners would let you pull the fabric taunt while keeping it elevated from the surface and you can reach your hand through the hole to grab your needle (...wait, could you? How big are these things?)

[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 12 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Instances range in size from 4 to 11 centimetres (1.6 to 4.3 in).

They're pretty small, turns out.

[–] Wheaties@hexbear.net 11 points 2 years ago

small enough to poke a needle all the way through, hah! my baseless speculation still holds!

[–] Bobson_Dugnutt@hexbear.net 10 points 2 years ago

Someone was saying that they were used for knitting gloves, but someone else was saying that's not true, I forget why

I want to fuck the roman dodecahedron

[–] coeliacmccarthy@hexbear.net 25 points 2 years ago

she do on my deca til i hedron

[–] Feinsteins_Ghost@hexbear.net 25 points 2 years ago

The ancient roman equivalent of desk decoration. Something you think looks nice, so you bring it to the office and set it on your desktop.

That or as someone else said you can do some s*x with it.

[–] FunkyStuff@hexbear.net 23 points 2 years ago (1 children)
[–] Omegamint@hexbear.net 12 points 2 years ago

Real ones know

[–] Venus@hexbear.net 22 points 2 years ago

Lmao you guys don't know what these were for

I wish they'd make a comeback sicko-wistful

[–] Rom@hexbear.net 22 points 2 years ago

It's how people played D&D before dice were invented

[–] WittyProfileName2@hexbear.net 20 points 2 years ago

The bottom right looks so much like the astral prism from BG3.

I can't help but wonder if making the prism look like that is intentional.

[–] Judge_Juche@hexbear.net 19 points 2 years ago

The Romans just thought they were neat

[–] CliffordBigRedDog@hexbear.net 19 points 2 years ago

they shoved it up their asses

[–] Utter_Karate@hexbear.net 19 points 2 years ago

Maybe they were used together with rope/chain to try to reign in their grotesquely vivid Italian body language?

[–] john_browns_beard@hexbear.net 18 points 2 years ago

What is art?

[–] iie@hexbear.net 18 points 2 years ago

for the curved one, if they actually worked out the angles and rate of curvature, that's pretty cool

[–] AstralWeekends@lemm.ee 16 points 2 years ago
[–] Deadend@hexbear.net 16 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Probably something mundane and useful, but in a weird culture way that seems stupid.

Like those are for wiping your ass or something.

[–] sooper_dooper_roofer@hexbear.net 13 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Like those are for wiping your ass or something

don't look up the xylospongium

[–] keepcarrot@hexbear.net 8 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Same, but also romans would have had very high fibre diets, not our modern greasy beer poops. So it's probably not as bad as you think, but I would still struggle

[–] sooper_dooper_roofer@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago (2 children)

no offense I'm not sharing a communal poop sponge with someone just because they eat high fiber

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Bobson_Dugnutt@hexbear.net 12 points 2 years ago

You're thinking of the three seashells

[–] SpiderFarmer@hexbear.net 14 points 2 years ago

I just think of the meme about an old granny using these to knit.

[–] Smeagolicious@hexbear.net 14 points 2 years ago
[–] CloutAtlas@hexbear.net 11 points 2 years ago

Huh, I knew I vaguely saw the BG3 artifact from somewhere before

[–] citrussy_capybara@hexbear.net 7 points 2 years ago (2 children)

the holes seems designed to fit on a cone, the nodes for string since they are undercut
below has further in-depth speculation, suggests game or calendar and rules out several guesses
https://tinkerings.org/2020/06/17/roman-dodecahedrons-part-i/
https://tinkerings.org/2020/06/17/roman-dodecahedrons-part-ii/
https://tinkerings.org/2020/12/25/roman-dodecahedrons-part-iii/
https://tinkerings.org/2020/12/25/roman-dodecahedrons-part-iv/




an icosahedron has 30 edges (days?) and 12 faces (months?)

Wrong, I already told you it's for measuring spaghetti servings. The little nubs are to keep it off the hot surface of the stove.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] chungusamonugs@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago
[–] Sasuke@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago

they're made to be pondered

load more comments
view more: next ›