this post was submitted on 17 Jul 2023
1088 points (93.2% liked)

Fuck Cars

12891 readers
774 users here now

A place to discuss problems of car centric infrastructure or how it hurts us all. Let's explore the bad world of Cars!

Rules

1. Be CivilYou may not agree on ideas, but please do not be needlessly rude or insulting to other people in this community.

2. No hate speechDon't discriminate or disparage people on the basis of sex, gender, race, ethnicity, nationality, religion, or sexuality.

3. Don't harass peopleDon't follow people you disagree with into multiple threads or into PMs to insult, disparage, or otherwise attack them. And certainly don't doxx any non-public figures.

4. Stay on topicThis community is about cars, their externalities in society, car-dependency, and solutions to these.

5. No repostsDo not repost content that has already been posted in this community.

Moderator discretion will be used to judge reports with regard to the above rules.

Posting Guidelines

In the absence of a flair system on lemmy yet, let’s try to make it easier to scan through posts by type in here by using tags:

Recommended communities:

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 
(page 3) 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] Bogasse@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

Well that's a topic that intrigued me recently.

Here in France there was already some debates about how worth it was, mostly because it takes a few years to compensate the cost of production of the battery. But in France we think of the electricity as basically carbon-free (our energetic mix is something like 70% nuclear, 7% gas+coal, then "clean" energy)

However, in the world I think something like 70% of electricity production is fossil (with ~40% of coal), I don't get how electric cars are even a thing, say in the US?

[–] Oddbin@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

One power station is easier to replace than 1 million cars but takes a fair bit longer. So you swap the cars over right now. You also immediately stop local production of co2 as well as other noxious gases, stop the transportation of fuel and the fuel that THAT burns and you make people more energy conscious not just about the vehicle but their total usage.

Fossil Fuels in a power station are more efficient than a car ever will be. In addition Petrol and diesel vehicles are dirty from day one until they are scrapped. EVs pay off their debt ( in the EU I believe it's less than 20k miles and falling) and then are as close as you can make to neutral but not ride a bike everywhere. As the grid gets cleaner you immediately benefit also.

Many people hate cars and in America you lot have been very lazy about public transport so you lot are way, way behind on a lot of the mass transit stuff sadly. This means EVs are the future. Are they the end point? Probably not. But they're the best we can do right now and this infighting over them is stupid.

We all should be behind anything that moves us to being fully electric as quick as possible, making the transition to public transport if we can but EVs if not. Fire your ire at the coal rollers and V8 5.0 wastes of energy, not the EVs.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] dimlo@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (8 children)

It’s not remotely easier. Trains carriages are easy to build, but the infrastructure is not. You have to move and extend roads, demolish buildings, lay the rails, build bridges, if you go underground there will be lots of digging and engineering work to protect nearby buildings, and don’t forget about maintenance. It is only profitable when the population is high enough and people have the need to travel to set places en mass. Otherwise it is just fantasy. If you live your whole live around any city Center, I can understand that you are not going to drive . But plenty of people lived in a tiny town of population under 10000people .

load more comments (8 replies)
[–] DiabolicalDucks@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Trains are electric. They use diesel generators to power the wheels.

[–] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Some trains can be connected to the grid 24/7 through overhead wires and/or onboard reserve batteries. This grid could be powered by greener sources of energy.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] itscozydownhere@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (6 children)

In cities, yeah. Outside cities, impossible

But I'd love to rent autonomous electric cars to move

load more comments (6 replies)
[–] UhBell@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (32 children)

You ever try taking your new mattress and bed frame on a train?

load more comments (32 replies)
[–] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

This isn't a binary. We need both robust public transportation and electric cars (with an electric grid supplied by renewable energy). Public transportation can't take you anywhere at anytime -- it's all a game of statistics and demand. If 12000 people want to go downtown at 7 pm, and 3 people want to go the opposite direction to get to work to start their night shift, you're going to see buses and trains headed downtown but not the opposite side of town.

Public transportation is best served for commutes and travelling to popular areas, and that's where the majority of emissions are coming from. Cars can supplement with everything else

[–] FlyingPiisami@sopuli.xyz 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Aren't buses and trains going back and forth?

[–] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

They are, but only in specified routes. The issue is the areas they don't hit because there isn't a ton of demand. That said, someone else mentioned a taxi type public transit service, and that would solve this perfectly.

[–] drathvedro@lemm.ee 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (10 children)

Why is it that trains are always proposed as the alternative to cars? I, for one, really want PRT to succeed. It seems to be the best middle ground between efficiency and convinience.

load more comments (10 replies)
load more comments
view more: ‹ prev next ›