Meanwhile most people: the answer to who is the bad guy is:
Both. Both is good
this post was submitted on 12 Dec 2023
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I support an elected government with secular state thank you
Does a historical claim hold weight over a long established later claim? No-one knows the answer to this one - how old must a claim be before it becomes invalid?
Are restrictive religious laws ok? I think the resounding answer is always "mine are, but theirs aren't", which really is just a recipe for war eternal. They never strike me as ok, because most of them focus on making a group of people "the other".
Is murdering civilians to achieve military objectives ok? No, it isn't, everyone knows that really - it's an idea that belongs in the middle ages and should have been left there.
I don't think I could join the Israel vs Palestine camps (both governments are shit - both are out for genocide), I think I prefer the camp filled with people who just want an end to the conflict, people who live on both sides of those ill defined borders.
What does everyone who matters (the people living through this hell) really want? They want their lives back, the ability to be themselves, and carry out their traditions undisturbed. Most of all, they want the killing and persecution to stop, and the time to mourn their losses.
How do we do that? Put the guns down, stop the bombardments and bombings, have each side treat the wounded of the other side, and then figure out the rest without starting the killing again.
Hamas isn't a government, it's a terrorist group. It's also horrible to Palestinians and it undermines the actual government of Palestine, the Palestinian Authority. There was just an article posted to Lemmy that talked about how Likud (the far right party governing Israel that's undermined peace talks multiple times) helped fund Hamas.
Oppressed people can't "put their guns down" because they're being exterminated. Only the oppressor can stop. If you're really against both Hamas and Israel, then you believe that Israel needs to stop committing genocide. If you're pretending "both sides" are equal, then you're playing the same game Trump said when he equated people waving Nazi and confederate flags witj people trying not to be killed by people waving Nazi and confederate flags by saying "both sides are to blame."
Pretending oppressed people have as much power as their oppressors is the game oppressors use to perpetuate their oppression.
Hamas isn’t a government, it’s a terrorist group. It’s also horrible to Palestinians and it undermines the actual government of Palestine, the Palestinian Authority.
The people of Gaza voted Hamas in, so Hamas is the actual government of Gaza. And also a terrorist organization.
You mean based on the election that happened 17 years ago? Considering the average age in Gaza is 18 it's pretty likely the people who voted for Hamas aren't even alive anymore.
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This discussion happened between me and a Zionist just the other day
them: What would you do if 1200 of your people were butchered?
me: 17k of my people have been butchered by Israel
them: "As a Palestinian, you don’t have any criticism of Hamas ? Oct 7th was just an “act of resistance” according to your view?"
I wonder how people like that would treat me if they met me on the public street.
them: What would you do if 1200 of your people were butchered?
me: 17k of my people have been butchered by Israel
What's the timeline of these events?
Within the same 2 months.
Timeline? Hamas does a terror attack on Oct 7th and kills 1200 people, Israel responds by killing at least 17000 Palestinians over the next 2 months and that's just the lower end of the estimate.
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Don't leave us hanging, what is your answer to their last question?
I'm highly critical of Hamas and have lost many friends over it.
I am always curious, why does Egypt not want to help Palestinian refugees? Or even allow then to travel through?
Good question. The official position is that they would not be able to go back to gaza once the war ended. And therefore they would be helping israel in displacing the palestinian people of their lands.
Plus, i suspect no one really wants 2M "permanent" refugees. On election season no less.
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Because the guy who runs Egypt is a dictator. Guess who appointed him?
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Zionists were using that phrase before Israel was even a state. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_the_river_to_the_sea?wprov=sfla1
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