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If someone is interested in legitimate home surveillance, they usually buy cameras that look like cameras, so people know there’s surveillance and don’t fuck around. Usually.
Amazon reps are morons for thinking they could claim innocence here.
this post was submitted on 05 Dec 2023
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There can be reasons why you might want more subtle cameras, but I struggle to think of legitimate reasons why one would want ones designed to only look hidden in closets and bathrooms.
Hence the standalone “usually.” Also there’s subtle and there’s straight up hidden, and I struggle to find a legit reason for hidden ones unless you’re conducting some kind of sting operation.
Exactly, probably why the lawsuit focused in on these types in particular.
It's not about being stupid, it's about not caring. Any punishment will be tiny compared to the profit made.
That would apply to listing it in the first place, they’re still morons for thinking they could claim innocence about it in court.
Again, modern strategy for corporations in lawsuits is to delay, delay, delay. The purpose is to continue drawing things out as long as possible. They knew full well it would fail. But it's a delay.
Cool story, they’re still morons who likely did think they would get away with it.
Honestly, I don’t know why some of you act like you’re the only ones who understand corporate legal strategy.
https://youtu.be/PshDKbs69BM?si=H0Fc9Kq5XRq2-4Cr
Apparently that video evidence there is fake no one's ever thought to spray paint the camera - if you could tell it's a camera.
It's almost as if and heavy sarcasm here humans know how cameras work. 🤣🤣🤣
Can you find the TV trope of infiltrator or burglar sees camera and shoots it or spray paints over it.... 🤣
They make a good point. If you sell someone a camera that specifically looks like a towel hook, where would you expect them to use it? I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't generally put up towel hooks in the living room or the garage...
And show pictures of it used in a bathroom.
"Your honor, we thought it was an entryway coat hanger."
- Amazon, probably.
Neither here nor there, but suction cup towel hooks in the kitchen are amazing. Dropping every towel on the ground every time you open the oven and then pretending they’re clean enough to dry your hands is just silly. Amazon should be culpable for selling tailored voyeurism tools.
"A loss for Amazon could put the online retailer on the hook for punitive damages."
I see your pun mr article author...
So is it just Amazon getting hit for this? Or will they be going after the manufacturer as well? Also, what about all the other companies that sell spy cams? Do they get a pass?
So is it just Amazon getting hit for this? Or will they be going after the manufacturer as well?
Nowadays it's hard to tell the difference between Amazon and Ali Express. Even if it's a third-party dropship business selling through Amazon, it's still Amazon doing the listing, selling, and transaction processing.
Even if you argue that the same store can sell stuff elsewhere, Amazon is still the one selling those. At best, you'd need to argue that after hitting Amazon, other stores should follow.
It depends. This case is brought against Amazon because the plaintiff was specifically (allegedly) injured by a product sold by Amazon. The judge/jury might find that Amazon's safety practices were negligent, which might have a ripple effect on other retailers safety practices. Alternatively, the judge/jury might find the products themselves are illegal, which would impact the whole industry*.
* So technically only the court / circuit the litigation is being brought in, unless it's appealed to the Supreme Court. Then the verdict impacts the whole country.
Yeah, I think we've got a "water pipe" vs. "bong" situation here, and Amazon was letting people say bong.
A camera is a camera. Calling it a bathroom camera betrays it's potentially illegal use too much. There is nothing inherently illegal about having a camera in the bathroom. Film yourself and other consenting adults all day.
Much like how calling to a bong made it contraband, but calling it a water pipe is okay, I believe Amazon will have to mandate that these be referred to as "interior waterproof cameras" going forward.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The plaintiff—a former Brazilian foreign exchange student then living in West Virginia—argued that Amazon had inspected the camera three times and its safety team had failed to prevent allegedly severe, foreseeable harms still affecting her today.
An amended complaint included a photo from Amazon's product listing that showed bathroom towels hanging on hooks that disguised the hidden camera.
"These allegations raise a reasonable inference Amazon sold a camera knowing it would be used to record a third party in a bathroom without their consent," Chambers wrote.
To the contrary, Chambers wrote that "if proven," the plaintiff's physical harms are considered "severe" because "emotional trauma inflicted during a child’s 'tender years' has an 'indelible effect' from which 'they may never recover.'"
She has also alleged that Amazon "conspired" with the spycam seller to "market and distribute a defective product both knew was intended and used for illegal and criminal purposes."
Tech legal expert Eric Goldman wrote that a victory for the plaintiff could be considered "a dangerous ruling for the spy cam industry and for Amazon," because "the court’s analysis could indicate that all surreptitious hook cameras are categorically illegal to sell."
The original article contains 804 words, the summary contains 191 words. Saved 76%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
So here's a question, can you locate these kinds of cameras using your phone or one of those camera locating devices?
Eric Goldman doesn't seem like he's making a good faith argument. It looks like a nonsense argument.