this post was submitted on 30 Nov 2023
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[–] flan@hexbear.net 70 points 2 years ago (3 children)

It’s not the world we are heading to, its the world we were heading to in 1985. We’re already there. It’s just way more pernicious and theres less fetishization of japan.

[–] LaGG_3@hexbear.net 49 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Wasn't the Japan stuff in 80s scifi primarily fear that their economy would overtake the US and Europe? It was the postwar economic miracle period for Japan.

I'd argue that the fear and orientalism are still here, just pointed at China instead of Japan.

[–] axont@hexbear.net 41 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Yeah there was a time in the 1970s if you had a Japanese car in a major urban area you could expect it to get vandalized. There was also that Micheal Crichton novel Rising Sun, and a bunch of Tom Clancy novels are about how a conspiracy of evil Japanese businessmen are gonna take over the world.

It was a weird moment where Japan was the designated enemy for a while. It really goes to show how easily propagandized the average American is, deciding who their enemies are based on whichever economic desire our capitalists have. Japan eventually lost this fight though, the Plaza accords and the Liberal Party trying to cut taxes ended up in the 1990s recession, which they never quite recovered from. Now Japan has a much less hostile and dominant role in their trade with the west

[–] LaGG_3@hexbear.net 17 points 2 years ago (1 children)

That was also when "J-slur Crap" started being used by car people, wasn't it? My boomer parents always assumed stuff that was made in Japan was of poor quality - they are the same about China now, obviously.

[–] FALGSConaut@hexbear.net 15 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

Now people buy the absolute cheapest stuff the can find on wish and call it chineseium when their $0.40 wrench lasts exactly as long as you'd think a $0.40 wrench would

[–] LaGG_3@hexbear.net 13 points 2 years ago

i-spil-my-jice my 40¢ wrench broked it must have been xi jinping

[–] SkingradGuard@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago

My $0.40 wrench broke! They're trying to destroy the west wojak-nooo

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[–] Kaplya@hexbear.net 20 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

People here are probably too young to remember, but by the late 1980s Nikkei 225 index had risen by more than 900% over 15 years, outperforming Nasdaq and S&P and every other market by miles.

Japan’s invasion of Hollywood, with Sony acquiring Columbia Pictures. Mitsubishi bought the Rockefeller Center. Japanese investors were buying up US properties left and right. For your ordinary Americans, it had looked like Japan would own America by the end of the century.

Japan already overtook US in worldwide semiconductor sales in the mid-1980s, with rumors of Fairchild, IBM and even Intel itself being acquired by Japanese firms. An internal Intel memo predicting that “Silicon Valley might become a wasteland” as it laid off 30% of its workers.

Then… it all came crashing down by Christmas day of 1989. The extraordinary growth of Japanese economy had been fueled by cheap credit, leading to asset price bubble that eventually bursted. Japan never recovered from that.

The US would also go on the experience a similar fate: with the financial deregulation of the Clinton era (started during Reagan) pumping out cheap credit that fueled the 1990s growth, everyone thought they would get richer simply by endlessly borrowing from the banks and going all in into real estate. This ultimately precipitated in the subprime mortgage crisis of 2008, and the global financial crisis of 2009. In many ways the US still hasn’t recovered from that crash.

[–] Tankiedesantski@hexbear.net 24 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Cheap credit was certainly a factor but I don't think you can ignore the effect of the Plaza Accords, the forced appreciation of the Yen, and the forced transfer of semi-conductor technology from Toshiba to Intel and other US compamies.

Japan is not a fully independent state and was/is under effective US military occupation. That's why they had to knuckle under and give the Americans what they wanted but when America tried the same against China, China told them to go eat shit.

Fun side story: at the height of the bubble, one property valuer estimated the land that the Imperial Palace in Tokyo sat on was worth more than all the real estate in California.

[–] Kaplya@hexbear.net 14 points 2 years ago

Definitely, my point is that it could never have lasted in any case. Junk mortgages are junk mortgages, just like the US subprime housing bubble - you cannot fuel the bubble indefinitely, it has to come crashing down at some point.

[–] CrimsonSage@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

As I understand it part of the whole basis for Japan's astronomical growth in the post war period was the deliberate setting of the value if the yen below its actual value.

[–] Tankiedesantski@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Nah, that's what the Yankoids what you to think because nobody could possibly beat America unless they were cheating. The Americans have been accusing China of the same thing as well.

In reality, nobody is going to buy a Japanese product if its not a good product. Japan had a strong centralized industrial policy where the state directed and financed the creation of key industrial sectors like automobiles and electronics. This goes against American free market ideology, which is why America is so committed to the myth of Japanese currency manipulation.

Well that, and a big does of "those yellows can only be beating us if they're cheating" racism.

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[–] RNAi@hexbear.net 14 points 2 years ago

El futuro llegó, hace rato 🎶 🎵 🎶

[–] SkingradGuard@hexbear.net 7 points 2 years ago (1 children)

less fetishization of japan.

idk have you seen how many weebs there are now?

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[–] KarlBarqs@hexbear.net 48 points 2 years ago (4 children)

The thing is that Cyberpunk 2077 exaggerates the evils of capitalism so far into absurdity that it stops being a critique of capitalism. Instead of the true mundane horrors of capitalism we have today, where companies basically knowingly stuff everything with microplastics and get away with it by greenwashing, and where single billionaires can inspired coups in foreign nations, Cyberpunk 2077 is a world where corporations feed you literal slop made of 100% artificial substances using the most crude and disgusting advertisements.

What CDPR does is basically make the most over the top faux capitalism where people do obviously evil shit and then gesture at it to go "haha wow glad we don't live like that, huh gamers?" There's absolutely zero meat to their critique, it's a capitalist strawman.

[–] Tankiedesantski@hexbear.net 27 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Cyberpunk 2077 is a world where corporations feed you literal slop made of 100% artificial substances using the most crude and disgusting advertisements.

I agree with your overall point, but if news broke tomorrow that the Impossible Burger was 80% plastic by mass I would not be surprised at all. Given how evil irl corporations already are you really have to exaggerate to predict how evil they'll get in 50 years. Otherwise you end up with shit like Quantum of Solace, where James Bond fought to prevent an evil corporation from privatizing all of Bolivia's water... And raising prices less than an actual company did irl.

Impossible Burger was 80% plastic by mass

as long as the macros are good i'll keep eating that garbage

[–] KarlBarqs@hexbear.net 10 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Even if it was 80% plastic, the advertising would still be positive advertising, trying to spin it as still a good thing.

Compared to Cyberpunk 2077 where their artificial slop is basically advertised as being the most disgusting slop ever, but people still accept that anyway

[–] LaGG_3@hexbear.net 8 points 2 years ago

They're recycled plastics! It's green!

[–] FumpyAer@hexbear.net 7 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I would... the FDA still exists to stop that sort of thing.

doin a bang up job, they are

[–] morrowind@lemmy.ml 15 points 2 years ago

2077 is just the aesthetics of cyberpunk and little meat, but absurdist late stage capitalism is not uncommon in the genre.

[–] Blottergrass@hexbear.net 13 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

It's also basically a post-apocalyptic setting. The rest of the world except for Canada, Sweden, and Japan is Fallout. Like despite all the evil capitalism, the main reason the world is a disaster is because there was a nuclear war, which for me really distracts from any sort of capitalist critique because I'd imagine any system dealing with those material conditions is gonna end up having horrors.

[–] Tankiedesantski@hexbear.net 12 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I didn't remember anything about widespread nuclear war. The Arasaka-Militech Corporate war ended with both sides getting nationalized, not widespread nuclear devastation. The USSR still exists (though subsumed by Sov Oi), as does China (as evidenced by Kang Tao and you do a quest for someone implied to be a Chinese spy). Theres also lots of references to Europe being a haven for advanced Biotech (especially in the expansion) and there's advertising for holiday packages in Somalia.

[–] BelieveRevolt@hexbear.net 7 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The Arasaka-Militech Corporate war ended with both sides getting nationalized

I thought it was supposed to be a dystopia sicko-wistful

[–] Tankiedesantski@hexbear.net 7 points 2 years ago

It is still a dystopia because Militech and Arasaka then ate the US and Japanese governments from the inside out. The president of the New USA is a former Militech exec.

[–] windowlicker@hexbear.net 10 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

it also totally misses the mark in some aspects. in actual gameplay, you have the ability to work for the police and literally help them fight people around the city. there's literally a whole copaganda mission glorifying some sexy detective. corps are evil, and capitalism has gone too far, but the police are your friends and you should help them shoot people on the street!

[–] LENINSGHOSTFACEKILLA@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago (10 children)

I wanted to like that section so bad too, because i'm a sucker for noir and bladerunner shit, but the glorification of the cops in this game was so gross, and immediately breaks immersion when the protag is continually shit talking them when they aren't on screen.

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[–] spacecadet@hexbear.net 46 points 2 years ago (1 children)

This could be debated but... sci fi dystopia is meant to highlight the horror we are in right now, not necessarily some prediction of the future. The use of an exaggerated fictional future is meant to shake off the intense normalization of existing in modernity.

[–] 7bicycles@hexbear.net 14 points 2 years ago (3 children)

I don't think this holds entirely true for cyberpunk as a genre. Like take cyberpunk-esque augmentations, that's just straight up a non-issue, even today. Right on the money as how that will go, if nothing else changes, but I don't think that's a horror applicable now. The underlying problem of how the system works, sure, but that's more a cautionary tale as to how things play out, not how they currently are

[–] zed_proclaimer@hexbear.net 8 points 2 years ago

He types from the electronic device that's on his person 24/7

[–] anonochronomus@hexbear.net 7 points 2 years ago

Plastic surgery? It's just having silicone implanted rather than silicon.

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[–] Tunnelvision@hexbear.net 41 points 2 years ago

My entire life I’ve wanted to make art or music or something, but I’ve always been scared because what if people get the wrong message from it? Posts like this confirm to me that’s gonna happen no matter how blatant and loudly you spell it out for people so you might as well do it.

[–] jaeme@hexbear.net 24 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Ironically cyberpunk is itself emblematic of a gross capitalist system.

Punishing crunch development period, released in a broken state, only high end machines can play the game, for some reason it gets an anime adaptation, G@mers "forgive" the company.

All just to be a GTA clone with RPG mechanics.

[–] LaGG_3@hexbear.net 14 points 2 years ago

gets an anime adaptation

Looping back to

Punishing crunch development period

But for the anime

[–] morrowind@lemmy.ml 13 points 2 years ago

Cyberpunk being commodotized into an aesthetic made by underpaid developers is quintessential cyberpunk.

[–] Discopanda@hexbear.net 22 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Cyberpunk 2077 is fine, especially after 2.0 patch, combat is great, different builds can give you a lot of fun. But when it comes to storytelling it misses the point entirely. V has a pretty good life, the horrors of dystopia doesn't really apply to him. Of cours Jackie, the Relic etc, are a huge problem for him, but in this world you're a cybernetic demi-god, have all the money, cars, apartments, there are no downsides.

[–] FuckyWucky@hexbear.net 20 points 2 years ago (7 children)

i think the side quests and contracts better shows how much of a capitalist hellhole Night City is.

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[–] booty@hexbear.net 11 points 2 years ago

V has a pretty good life

V almost immediately gets a cyberghost implanted into their brain which starts to kill them/overwrite their identity while also verbally abusing them. The only way it can be seen as a "good life" is if you illogically fuck around for hours and hours on end with all the sidequests which no person who's essentially dying of brainghost supercancer with a small hope of being able to cure it if they focus on the main tasks at hand would do.

[–] Waldoz53@hexbear.net 9 points 2 years ago (1 children)

i havent been able to do a deep dive into the expansion yet but its thrown me off that the initial plot of phantom liberty is...assisting the president of the NUSA. like oh...ok i guess thats what punks do now? anarcho-biden ass politics

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[–] Fishroot@hexbear.net 22 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Cyberpunk enjoyers really think they are some shadow runner PMCs, Yet i don't see them working as a uber driver.

Curious

[–] Tankiedesantski@hexbear.net 7 points 2 years ago

Uber drivers were put out of work by AI driven cars.

[–] FuckyWucky@hexbear.net 21 points 2 years ago
[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 12 points 2 years ago

Wow!! Cool future!!

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