Im just way more skeptical everytime i see the word "antisemitic" with how much its being used for criticism of Israel or support of palestinians.
this post was submitted on 28 Nov 2023
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Jewish people are attacked on the streets, synagogues are being attacked and smeared with swastikas etc.
You can condemn that and still think Israel is making a mistake in Gaza.
This is absolutely true. Antisemitism is on the rise in many places. At the same time some organizations (like the ADL) mark everything anti zionist as antisemitist. This muddies the water and takes away from the actual stuff some people have to go through with antisemitism. Their stories deserve to be heard and not getting drowned out by claims that have nothing to do with antisemitism.
I don’t think the OP you’re replying to means to say that antisemitism isn’t on the rise, it’s just hard to know how much is actual antisemitism and how much is marked as antisemitism when it’s just criticism of Zionism and/or the state of Israel.
The ADL has been calling the demonstrations by Jewish Voice for Peace anti-Semitic. I don't doubt there's a rise of incidents, but it's always a good idea to look at who's providing the numbers and what they consider an incident.
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Among the 994 antisemitic incidents, there were three cases of extreme violence, 29 attacks, targeted damage to 72 properties, 32 threats, four mass mailings and 854 cases of offensive behavior.
So at least 10% of this number are actual violence.
Gonna need a firm definition of "offensive behavior" to call this one though. The word "offensive" is already overloaded with all sorts of meaning.
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Someone will say something similar any time antisemitism is discussed in any context. Whatever your intention, it has the effect of minimizing and normalizing antisemitism. The article is clear that only a fifth of incidents are even tangentially related to Israel at all. Attacking or threatening German Jews or destroying their property isn't criticism of Israel. Marking Jewish homes with a Star of David or firebombing synagogues isn't supporting Palestinians.
'Criticism of Israel' shouldn't mean giving cover to Nazis.
While I agree that’s true, it’s also the case that Israel has both conflated itself with Jewish people globally to claim criticism of itself as antisemitism, as well as committed actual atrocities against non-Israeli Jewish people as a means of propaganda to promote the idea that nowhere is safe for Jewish people except Israel. This muddies the water and makes it difficult to accurately discuss and criticize actual antisemitism, to the benefit of Israel and to the detriment of Jewish people.
Even if that's true, Jewish people are not collectively responsible for the actions of the Israeli government. In that case, you'd have an argument for not trusting the Israeli government. You can't extend that to German Jews (in this case) or groups that monitor antisemitism in Germany without it also being an implicit argument about why you can't trust Jews.
It’s more of a “boy who cried wolf” scenario. Many have become numb to accusations of antisemitism, because the term is frequently used incorrectly. Israel, along with Pro-Israel groups in Europe and the US (who may or may not themselves be Jewish) are frequently guilty of misusing the term. This article even states that 21% of counted incidents were anti-Israel, and a further 5% were anti-imperialist. Including those in the overall count is just incorrect unless they are also antisemitic in some other way, and because of that people are right to be skeptical of claims like in this headline. It’s not skepticism of Jewish people, it’s skepticism of people who seem motivated to call anti-Israeli acts antisemitic.
The solution here also isn’t to stop reporting on antisemitism. Doing so is important and should be recorded and reported correctly. The solution is that anti-Israeli acts cannot be included in those statistics, and people with a specific motivation to do so shouldn’t be the ones reporting.
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And whenever groups criticize israel or support palestinians someone will call it anti-semitism, minimizing and normalizing the genocide of palestinians.
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Propaganda is a double edged sword.
Right, what Susan Serandon said in a less than ideal way is equated with firebombing.
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extremists groups are on the rise in general since they see they are being accepted more these days.
only needs to look at lemmy to understand why they feel so comfortable coming out now more than ever.
Or Reddit. But don't look at Reddit lol.
What is going on with these posts? Why are all the comments deleted?
So, it says there are 17 comments, but I only see 5?
Albatross told me to go fuck myself. That user should definitely be banned. Where are all the other comments?
Uncivil comments are removed. Continued uncivil behavior can lead to a ban. Probably the case here.
I didn't see anything uncivil. Certainly not pro-Isreal, but not uncivil.
Edit: Except for a post from the albatross. They seem unhinged.
Check the modlog, usually it is someone insulting another user.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
There was also a rise in antisemitic and anti-Israeli propaganda at universities in Germany, with a total of 37 incidents logged by RIAS.
The monitoring group said that during the time period analyzed, about one in five incidents, or 21%, was attributed to anti-Israeli activism.
While Germany’s government has been one of Israel’s staunchest supporters following the Oct. 7 Hamas attack and the subsequent Gaza war, there were outbreaks of violence at several street protests, in Berlin especially.
Jews in the German capital reported antisemitic hostility in grocery stores, on public transportation or from neighbors, and deplored that uninvolved bystanders often looked the other way instead of showing support.
“Berliners are called upon not to leave those affected by antisemitism alone, especially in everyday situations,” said Ruth Hatlapa from RIAS.
“Jews are hiding signs and symbols: a cap over the kippah, the Star of David pendant under the scarf, they no longer speak Hebrew on the street,” the report notes.
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