A place to share alternatives to popular online services that can be self-hosted without giving up privacy or locking you into a service you don't control.
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We welcome posts that include suggestions for good self-hosted alternatives to popular online services, how they are better, or how they give back control of your data. Also include hints and tips for less technical readers.
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In regard to enterprises, they don’t give a rats ass about any potential intellectual property theft. That risk has been written off. What matters is compliance and security.
Not having DDOS protection in place can potentially have legal consequences and can be very costly. DDOS protection is either investing millions of dollars in equipment or offloading that responsibility to a company like Cloudflare.
they don’t give a rats ass about any potential intellectual property theft. That risk has been written off
That's not true. It's a mitigated risk through contract.
security
i think you are completely wrong here. big corporations do cost assessments of security vs costs of security breaches. if security is more expensive than data breach, they will accept the breach.
They think it's not a problem for them. Because they think that:
This reminds me of current situation with "AI": There is OpenAI/Anthropic with their APIs (requests are sent via HTTPS but OpenAI/Anthropic are not only need to have access to do their work - they also censor it). There are paid-for alternatives who either host proxies for OpenAI/Anthropic/others (like OpenRouter.ai) or host local models for others (hosting require significant resources which will be unusused if you don't query often). There are means to host locally at home if you can. Some people prefer not to use local hosting even when they can do so.
It's not entirely true what you said. I use cloudflare -> my Proxyserver -> my machines behind the Proxyserver
My Proxyserver has my own certificates loaded and terminates the SSL/TLS connection from cloudflare
Even if the data is passing through cloudflare cdn uses the cloudflare certificates my data is encrypted first using my own certificates from the Proxyserver
Even if the data is passing through cloudflare cdn uses the cloudflare certificates my data is encrypted first using my own certificates from the Proxyserver
This is false, connect to your website, check the certificate, it will be Cloudlfare's. I assume either you have not checked, or are a Business customer paying quite some money yearly to Cloudflare.
Cloudflare decrypts inbound traffic, then re-encrypts it before sending it to you, unless you pay a decent amount of money so that they serve your certificate.
OP, what you're describing is not the "big scary MITM" attack vector. It's how TLS/Reverse proxies work. Whether you are using Cloudflare or hosting your own reverse proxy somewhere with full control, it's still terminating TLS at the endpoint and passing back traffic in the clear to the backend.
Some people like Cloudflare for whatever reasons, and that's okay. I host my own reverse proxy out on a VPS and it works just fine.
You'll find that not all of the seflhosted community is super-focused on privacy as say r/privacy is.
Maybe it's my fault for posting this in selfhosted. My question was of a more generic nature about security and privacy in general. You're right, r/privacy might be a better sub for this conversation.
In my case my reverse proxy (nginx) runs on the same machine as my backend. In fact nginx also serves all static data with the backend only serving api requests.
The sites I expose to Cloudflare were already being publicly hosted for my friends. Anything actually private or sensitive I run via private DNS and Wireguard internally.
I'm either reading this wrong or there's a disconnect in knowledge. If you have your own SSL cert and do the termination of that on your end, CF cannot do any MITM without an error on the user's end.
However, if your just setting up an a record or whatever to your server that isn't doing ssl termination, then yes they are mitm
Cloudflares Web Application Firewall or 'WAF' is a reverse proxy that sits in front of your server issuing it's own certs valid for your domain (cloudflare is a CA, and has control over your DNS to get others to issue certs for them). They then provide caching alongside DDOS protection, geoblocking, various customizable firewall settings, as well as just masking your servers ip with their own. This is their primary service aside from just basic DNS/registrar services.
Cloudflare is awesome and undervalued in my opinion. They provide dozens of services and charge extremely reasonable pricing.
Outsourcing of (some) risk
If Cloudflare loses the data and it negatively impacts our brand, we can sue the shit out of them.
It sounds like you think the issue with a man-in-the-middle attack is the MITM part, not the attack.
Also...shouldn't we talking more about self-hosting rather than privacy and efficiency issues? I think the topic is a moot point - either you feel that Cloudflare is 'trustworthy'...or you don't.
IMHO, it's sorta like using Google's Gmail for business purposes. Read the fine print - they can do whatever they want with your data, despite their privacy statements. Same goes with Cloudflare. You're using *their* services on *their servers.
They have to lookout for themselves and the risks involved.
Yes by default traffic is only encrypted between cloudflare and users, but you can set it to “full (strict)” and have it end to end encrypted
That's not end to end encryption, it's two seprate ssl connections both terminated at cloudflare. One from client to cloudflare, one from cloudflare to your server. Cloudflare is still a MITM inspecting your traffic in that scenario.
They do however let you disable their proxy(WAF) service, acting as pure DNS so clients connect directly to your IP instead of theirs. But they can at any point toggle that back on and intercept your traffic, nothing really stopping them except morals and T&Cs, but that's not exactly bullet proof. T&Cs can be rewritten and corporations with Morals? Right.....
It comes down to the same line of reasoning that most people are "OK" with using cloud, be it aws, google, oracle, microsoft etc .. Out of laziness and lack of expertise, basically sysadmins are dead. Otherwise it's always a bad idea to offload anything on a third-party specially without transparency (pinky promise)
Badger DAO lost 120M, to this pinky trust. https://www.theblock.co/post/126072/defi-protocol-badgerdao-exploited-for-120-million-in-front-end-attack
Same issue however exists wirh domain name registerers, etc, hence even such a thing as ens.domains are much more trustworthy, and it's much harder to exploit.
Yes. This means they can see your native encrypted self-signed traffic.
Which does not do much. Unless you expose unsecured content to the internet. Please don't.