this post was submitted on 17 Nov 2023

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Whah happens when someone is IP-banned and has a (cg)nated IP? Will other people with the same IP abble to join (lemmy.zip)

submitted 2 years ago by sarmale@lemmy.zip to c/technology@lemmy.world

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[–] luthis@lemmy.nz 30 points 2 years ago (1 children)

No. If you're banning by IP, then that IP is banned for everyone using that IP.

I have no idea how frequently this is used, I've never been IP banned, but for this exact reason it seems like using a sledgehammer to kill a cockroach. IP bans (apparently) last only a few days and are easily defeated by using a proxy / vpn, so I doubt they are very common because it's ineffective.

I would assume more modern blocking uses OS fingerprinting paired with IP and geolocation (assuming an anonymous user) to more effectively block. But I could be completely wrong there.

[–] iopq@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

You can also ban all of the VPS IPs, but then many more people will be banned. I had to ask to be able to edit Wikipedia from a proxy, for example

[–] Toes@ani.social 11 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

IP banning has fallen out of favour because of how trivial it is to circumvent and the adoption of IPv6. However, everything sharing that ip will be affected by the ban. Additionally with a soft IP ban, a service could potentially offer additional authentication to bypass it; such as a login page.

[–] BetaDoggo_@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

Everyone with that IP would be banned, but it's pretty uncommon these days. I assume known cgnat addresses are also probably whitelisted by protection services like cloudflare to prevent random people from ruining it for everyone.

[+] Weslee@lemmy.world -6 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Easiest way for most people to get around an IP ban is to simply turn your router off for a few minutes - most ISPs will recycle that IP and assign a new one to you.

Doesn't work if you have a static IP, but that is usually something you have to ask for specifically

[–] BlueEther@no.lastname.nz 4 points 2 years ago

I've had the same dynamic IP for nearly 3 years, except for about a day after a 2 day power and internet outage, I suspect that the IP only changed because of temp routing within the isp during the outage. I got my old IP back after less than a day.

[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Most isps? You're painting with a huge and arbitrary brush here

[–] Weslee@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I'm not sure where you're from, I don't know if it's common where you are, but as far as I know here in the UK there is only 1 ISP that offers static IPs as standard. Otherwise it is something you have to request from your ISP

[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I'm in the US. Been using the Internet and aware of my IP address situation for about 20 years. Not sure I've ever seen new ips handed out that often. Static means you pay to guarantee an unchanged ip. The exact specifics vary a lot but generally my IP address goes unchanged for months regardless of router reboots. It can change any time but in practice doesn't change all that often.

[–] Weslee@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I just searched it and, even in the US, power cycling your router is the most common way to get a new IP.

https://www.howtogeek.com/870370/how-to-change-your-ip-address/

[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Ok, so now I know that howtogeek is unreliable. That article was written by a moron.

they did not even seem to know that there is a such thing as a local and global/WAN ip address, there is never any mention of that in the article.
they say this like it's consistently true, no qualifiers. they gloss over the topic like it's simple and consistently works. it doesn't even consistently work for your local ip, your local ip is unimportant to anyone who isn't already physically on or hacked into your home network... not relevant to the discussion.

I just tried this though, just as a sanity check. I checked my WAN ip, unplugged my router and plugged back in, got the same ip again, unplugged the router for 15 seconds, still got the same ip.

The truth is, isps probably like to keep ips around for a while because precisely of people needing to have a semi-consistent identity to servers. If you could just evade any ip ban by rebooting your router, I feel like the internet would be an even wilder place, in a lot of bad ways.

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago

Old cable guy here. Back in the day people had their modems jacked directly into their PC, so directly on the internet.

LOL, anyone remember needing something like Zone Alarm as a firewall?

TRIGGERED

Maybe it made sense to swap their IPs on reboot for their own, dumb protection? Maybe more likely that now we all have 24/7 modem/router/firewalls it costs less overhead to leave the dynamic IP alone? Maybe they just want us to pay extra for a "static" IP, even though it's basically that way for many or most of us?

Your last point is probably more on the money. I WFH and have to have my IP in a couple of whitelists. Since it never changes, no hassle.

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Y'all quit downvoting OP. He's right in some cases, not so much in others.

US here, old cable internet guy. Can't speak for all the ISP's, but the several I've worked leave your dynamic IP alone unless you swap routers or modems. Weird because they used to swap your IP on reboots, or seemingly randomly. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Can't think of an easy, reliable way to do it without new hardware.

[–] Weslee@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

I've been able to get new IPs by simply power cycling my IP - though my IP also used to change randomly on its own also (I always presumed there was some network outage in the night when this happened though), I've also had quite a few different ISPs and they all worked like this, maybe it's more common in the UK.

I only know this is the norm because I host a website and media server from my home and had to update my DNS records everytime my IP changed, so I started to request static IPs