this post was submitted on 08 Nov 2023
50 points (100.0% liked)

chapotraphouse

13473 readers
1 users here now

Banned? DM Wmill to appeal.

No anti-nautilism posts. See: Eco-fascism Primer

Vaush posts go in the_dunk_tank

Dunk posts in general go in the_dunk_tank, not here

Don't post low-hanging fruit here after it gets removed from the_dunk_tank

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
 

What a ridiculous question. The real answer, and the one commonly accepted in any Arab country, is I don't condemn resistance movements. I only blame them for not doing more to avoid civilian casualties that's all.

all 35 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] oktherebuddy@hexbear.net 67 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

You have to understand this question isn't about the actual question. 90% of a debate is won by who gets to frame the issue. The other 10% is just tactical wrangling within whatever narrow frame was established, heavily favoring whoever chose the frame. This question is about framing the issue. Just don't accept it. Don't accept the framing. Don't even waste a minute responding to it in any way whatsoever.

[–] RNAi@hexbear.net 50 points 2 years ago

"Do you condemn the ongoing genocide? The ongoing apartheid? Do you condemn the Nakba?"

[–] Huldra@hexbear.net 47 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I don't think there is a PR friendly answer as such since you either condemn hamas unconditionally or you are soft on them.

My response generally has been "Objectively the only strategy that can stop the existence of Hamas is to forcefully stop the Israeli campaign of genocide, ethnic cleansing, and apartheid, if you want to bomb Hamas out of existence that objectively means bombing every single Palestinian to death."

This is of course, not condemning Hamas, so its not PR friendly.

[–] birdcat@lemmy.ml 21 points 2 years ago

PR friendly: "I'm in no position to condemn or endorse Hamas; this is up to the Palestinians living in Gaza. And .... " then what you wrote.

[–] Infamousblt@hexbear.net 43 points 2 years ago
[–] Teekeeus@hexbear.net 38 points 2 years ago (1 children)

"Do you condemn the warsaw ghetto uprising?"

[–] foxodroid@hexbear.net 12 points 2 years ago (3 children)

I saw responses like the Jews didn't kidnap or kill civilians in the uprising

[–] coeliacmccarthy@hexbear.net 34 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

1860 and you're being asked "do you condemn the sioux raids on innocent homesteaders"

[–] the_kid@hexbear.net 23 points 2 years ago

the frontier settlers have a right to defend themselves

[–] SteamedHamberder@hexbear.net 21 points 2 years ago

And look how that turned out for them.

[–] Dolores@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago

Jews didn't kidnap or kill civilians in the uprising

hahahahahaha so if the US wasn't literally at war with the germans at the time, these people would condemn it. of course they killed civilians lmfao

[–] JohnBrownsBussy2@hexbear.net 33 points 2 years ago

Hamas is an army of orphans. The Israelis are reaping what they have sowed by their decades long effort to squeeze the Palestinian people out of existence.

[–] micnd90@hexbear.net 32 points 2 years ago

Revolutionaries didn't choose armed struggle as the best path

It is the path the oppressors imposed to people

fidel-si

[–] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 28 points 2 years ago

"Palestine has a right to defend itself"

[–] the_post_of_tom_joad@hexbear.net 28 points 2 years ago

"I condemn your mom for allowing you to ask me that question"

Perfect PR

[–] FuckyWucky@hexbear.net 26 points 2 years ago

"I condemn Israel for creating Hamas."

[–] MattsAlt@hexbear.net 25 points 2 years ago

No and I also don't condemn earthquakes. You cannot condemn the culmination of natural phenomenon whether that's tectonic plates moving or people reacting to decades of intense subjugation with no resolution or even meaningful concern in sight

[–] Great_Leader_Is_Dead@hexbear.net 25 points 2 years ago

"Do you condemn what created Hamas?"

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 24 points 2 years ago

I've had some success with "what else are they supposed to do?" The ones who actually have a shred of understanding of this conflict are either forced to say "I don't know" or give a weak-ass "something else"

Of course the dumbasses say shit like "Hamas should turn themselves in so Israel stops bombing Gaza" as if the genocide is their fault.

[–] alcoholicorn@hexbear.net 22 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Do you condemn the ANC for their actions to end apartheid in South Africa? No action by Hamas can change the fact that they are a response to a greater, ongoing injustice, which Israel can end at any time.

I will condemn Hamas's actions the moment Israel returns the Palestinian's homes and grants them equal rights.

[–] Dirt_Owl@hexbear.net 16 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

"What the fuck is a harm ass?"

[–] HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net 15 points 2 years ago

"You're asking me if I condemn Palestine. No, I don't."

[–] Optimus_Subprime@hexbear.net 14 points 2 years ago

My response is, "Okay, since you call Hamas "terrorists", do you condemn the terrorists who started the US and Israel? Because the Br*tish Empire encountered both of those terrorist groups and it is well documented."

[–] LaughingLion@hexbear.net 12 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

"only if you condemn israel"

and to be clear if they are willing to condemn the policies and actions of israel then sure, i can condemn this action by hamas and we can have a real discussion about the problems there but no, zionists and their defenders cant even do this

[–] ikilledtheradiostar@hexbear.net 11 points 2 years ago
[–] came_apart_at_Kmart@hexbear.net 10 points 2 years ago

"And like a good little white supremacist colonizer, I expect you condemn the Nations of the Plains for their actions at the Little Big Horn?"

[–] Satanic_Mills@hexbear.net 9 points 2 years ago (1 children)

"I am subject to PFLP party discipline."

[–] Frank@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago

This is what I've been doing. "Yeah, yeah, I condemn Hummus or whatever. I support the PFLP, DFLP, Lion's Den, and just keep listing resistance groups they've never heard of and then "And they're all allied with Hamas, so I guess I'm on-team with Hamas too.

[–] MayoPete@hexbear.net 9 points 2 years ago

"Do you condemn Israel?"

[–] pumpchilienthusiast@hexbear.net 9 points 2 years ago

“I condemn your mom”

[–] SexMachineStalin@hexbear.net 8 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I'm going to ask them if they would like to feed the lions in the Johannesburg Zoo before all the zookeepers go on a three-day weekend break on the 15th of December. One settler should suffice to keep all the big kitties fed for the time, right?

Or the George Calloway method.

[–] Frank@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago

Some animals have the ability to explosively vomit bile and stomach contents on attackers when cornered.

Alternately; sweep the leg, then pee on them.

It's not a question looking for an answer, it's a rhetorical attack and should be met with equally violent sophistry.

[–] Umechan@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago
[–] TheDialectic@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Yes. And there are more empty homes here in America than there are people in Isreal. We should have them all come live in Florida so they can be safe.