this post was submitted on 07 Apr 2026
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Donald Trump’s threats to carry out mass bombing of civilian infrastructure in Iran present US military officers with a dilemma: disobey orders or help commit war crimes.

It is an urgent matter for the US chain of command. In an expletive-laden threat, Trump set a Tuesday 8pm Washington time deadline for the Iranian government to open the strait of Hormuz or face “Power Plant Day, and Bridge Day, all wrapped up in one”.

There is little debate among legal experts that such an attack on the life-supporting infrastructure for 93 million Iranians would constitute a war crime.

“Such rhetorical statements – if followed through – would amount to the most serious war crimes – and thus the president’s statements place service members in a profoundly challenging situation,” two former judge advocate general (JAG) officers, Margaret Donovan and Rachel VanLandingham wrote on the website Just Security on Monday.

“As former uniformed military lawyers who advised targeting operations, we know the president’s words run counter to decades of legal training of military personnel and risk placing our warfighters on a path of no return.”

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[–] wampus@lemmy.ca 4 points 6 hours ago (5 children)

These types of articles are annoying at this point -- the sort of appeal to morality things, based on essentially dead 'world order' concepts. Even when there was a quasi functional set of agreements in place, America just veto'd any attempt to hold it accountable anyhow. International law, or any law really, is largely based on some sort of 'force' that gives it authority -- in a country, that force is generally the state/police, and internationally it was generally the US-lead coalition of western nations. That authority died in 2025.

We've already seen the USA/Hegseth drag all his generals into a room and tell them to not be 'burdened by rules of engagement', encouraging them to commit war crimes openly in order to instill terror in others. Anyone who disagreed with his speech was basically shown the door. This was like a year ago even, it's not 'new'.

The USA basically shredded any moral dilemmas/debates in the process, and burnt the soft power they'd been cultivating for decades/generations in early 2025. What's the point of saying it's wrong based on an old, defunct system that they've already abandoned? If anything, the American right wing will likely cheer that they're getting these sorts of angsty pearl clutching responses from the left / foreign liberal powers. Trump quite literally bragged about America's war crimes in Venezuela during his state of the union address, cracking jokes to which all the republicans laughed and applauded. Trump's threats about Iran's civilian infrastructure, and the bets on whether he'll drop nukes -- these are things that the right wing / Americans want to see happen. They think it's right to do it.

So really, the article shouldn't be about "Oh No!! International Law may be violated!", but rather, "Why should people care about international law being violated, when they've already asserted that they disagree with that law and its results?". Like if/when Trump drops nukes on Irans civilian power plants/water desalination plants etc.... what then? Is there some sort of accountability that's gonna suddenly show up? Prolly not.

[–] lemmy_outta_here@lemmy.world 3 points 6 hours ago

I agree with your assessment and i share your fury about the situation.

One observation: repetition works. It may be hard to fathom, but lots of people voted for trump without any understanding of the world. lots of his supporters are evil, but some are stupid/ignorant/confused/misguided. trump’s support is falling - i won’t rule out that labeling his crimes and repeating the message that trump is a criminal may be working.

[–] teyrnon@sh.itjust.works 2 points 5 hours ago

The international order did not die in 2025, or rather it was on its death bed since long before then. But yes I agree.

[–] teyrnon@sh.itjust.works 1 points 5 hours ago

The international order did not die in 2025, or rather it was on its death bed since long before then. But yes I agree.

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[–] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 11 points 8 hours ago

There are plenty of brainwashed talibangelicals in the military who will happily push the world into global war at trump’s command.

[–] melsaskca@lemmy.ca 7 points 8 hours ago (2 children)

"Truth, honour and the American way!" means that soldiers should disobey trump's orders and stand up for their country.

[–] teyrnon@sh.itjust.works 1 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

If they did so, there would be court-martialed, perhaps called out personally by the president and made into a hated figure amongst the 15% of the population that are Mega diehards, and of course the rest of the population that goes along to get along, which includes cops and prosecutors. But it is beside the point really, they knew what they were signing up for or should have, if they didn't know then they are too stupid to be relied upon anyway or more charitably I could say to misguided. But between you and me stupid.

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[–] Fuckfuckmyfuckingass@lemmy.world 181 points 17 hours ago (4 children)

SEEMS LIKE A PRETTY FUCKIN' EASY DECISION.

[–] derAbsender@piefed.social 13 points 9 hours ago (2 children)

Make crime or make no crime.

Is it allowed to be a serious question for the rest of us as well? Or is it just the fucking Military that has the Option to ditch the Law?

[–] Ithral@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 9 hours ago

The law is just a bunch of words, it can't make you do anything or prevent you from doing anything. Follow it or don't your call

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[–] dukatos@lemmy.zip 5 points 8 hours ago

There is no brain under the helmet.

[–] atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 7 points 9 hours ago (4 children)

Is it? If you follow orders you will most likely not be punished in any way. If you don't then you definitely will.

I mean, it's easy for you to tell others to take that risk I guess, maybe that's what you meant.

[–] drmoose@lemmy.world 12 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (3 children)

Yes agency - what an awful thing to have. Better be a mindless drone and just coast through life being someone's bitch huh

I'm not directing this at you btw. Just this mentality of "oh I have no choice but to submit" is what got us in ww3 to begin with.

[–] currycourier@lemmy.world 7 points 7 hours ago

Its what let the Holocaust happen too

[–] teyrnon@sh.itjust.works 0 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

We could have a very long Nuanced discussion about what led us to this place, I'm not entirely sure your factor is the overriding one either, although it is a factor.

[–] atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 0 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (5 children)

It's not about agency it's about a very real risk. You will be court-martialed for disobeying an order. Period.

You will then need to fight a lengthy and public legal battle against the US government to prove that your disobeying was legal. And the result is very much not guaranteed.

That is a significant risk to ask of a soldier and should not be underestimated. I hear your armchair "well they should be brave" whining but this is reality.

[–] toad@lemmy.wtf 2 points 5 hours ago

Sentence for insubordination: 5 years or more

Sentence for crime against humanity: lifetime or the rope.

Sounds like a nobrainer

[–] toad@lemmy.wtf 2 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

And if you commit war crime it won't be a martial court that will hung you.

Well not an american one.

Of course that's in a world where there's a justice and we're not led by a bunch of american pedophiles.

[–] drmoose@lemmy.world 2 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Sure but it's only reality because everyone's too pussy to take responsibility thus the framework is not protecting agency. So it becomes and endless circle of no one's taking responsibility out of fear thus no one's agency is being protected.

The answer here has been clear since ancient Greek philosophers - virtue. As a soldier, or any professional for that matter, you have to rule your position through virtue not fear. This is the only way to resist oppression and deception.

[–] atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 1 points 6 hours ago (2 children)

Sure but it’s only reality because everyone’s too pussy to take responsibility

It's always easy for somebody with no skin in the game to demand another person risk everything they have.

[–] toad@lemmy.wtf 1 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

Somebody have blown a village in iraq like a good doggie. People like you disgust me.

"No skin in the game", go tell that to the people under the bombs, asshole

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[–] FaceDeer@fedia.io 84 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

Based on how the US military has behaved throughout both recent and more distant history, yeah, the answer's obvious.

They're going to obey.

[–] 0_o7@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago) (7 children)

They're not just going to obey, they'll make videos of it to pass it around as trophies and their citizens will wave it off like it's normal occurrence.

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[–] MagicShel@lemmy.zip 68 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

As a former soldier, "warfighter" is the stupidest fucking word I've heard in my life. It makes me think the speaker is a profound idiot every time I hear it. This might be the first time I've read the word — and it is just as stupid as ever.

[–] Eddbopkins@lemmy.world 5 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

That's who got voted into office. It's no one's fault but the American public that these people are your leaders. It's easy to get ride of them. Collectively vote them out. But that probably won't happen.

[–] MagicShel@lemmy.zip 9 points 9 hours ago

It will 100% happen if we have fair elections, but that's the rub. Trump has terrible numbers. The economy is garbage. Everything is garbage. We elected a dictator, and he might be too big of a buffoon to strangle our democracy, but there's a chance that it's already too late and we failed to stop him when it was possible without violence.

[–] derAbsender@piefed.social 3 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

It's absolutely Imperative that in the new world Order the UN has to be a stronger (best would be THE strongest) global Military Power.

We have to figure out how something Like this rogue stateship of the Military hegemon of the world can be stopped. Otherwise Things gonna repeat themselves.

[–] toad@lemmy.wtf 2 points 5 hours ago

Maybe the UN should have nuke.

[–] HootinNHollerin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

Minneapolis trials with public hangings or no justice no peace

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[–] Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world -2 points 5 hours ago (3 children)

The key is that the orders have to be obviously illegal. Can't be much maybe about it. I didn't see anything in the article saying what makes it a war crime. And I am pretty sure there isn't anything very explicit doing so. Bombing/disrupting infrastructure has been a staple of war since forever.

[–] teyrnon@sh.itjust.works -1 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Ww2 was where hitting the means of production occurred on an industrial scale. But from russians razing and burning their own land they retreat from to romans it has been standard.

International law means nothing anyway. We all know it. I'm sick of hearing about it because it means nothing.

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[–] Mannimarco@lemmy.dbzer0.com 26 points 17 hours ago

Oh yeah, a real head scratcher

[–] shittydwarf@sh.itjust.works 25 points 17 hours ago

How is this a dilemma for the US military? They are going full on war crimes, who's gonna held them accountable anyway?

Polio needs to catch up in that shithole... Polio or whatever, the US are a threat to the whole world.

[–] Mohamed@lemmy.ca 21 points 17 hours ago (2 children)

Is is legal to commit war crimes in the United States? Because if it is, this becomes an ethical argument rather than a legal one.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 12 points 15 hours ago

The US isn't an ICC signatory, but it has its own military law that defines illegal orders, so some subset of war crimes is also illegal under US law. I'm guessing destroying the water infrastructure of nearly 100 million people would be included, but I'll leave it to someone else to fact check that.

TL;DR: It's illegal to commit some war crimes in America, but I don't know about this particular war crime.

[–] lennybird@lemmy.world 26 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (1 children)

With this Trump-appointed crooked SCOTUS and the Trump-appointed crooked US Attorney General, combined with the fact we are not signatories to the ICC? I'm going to sadly say yes.

[–] 20cello@lemmy.world 8 points 15 hours ago (1 children)
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[–] tacoplease@lemmy.world 11 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

Airplanes and ships firing mechanisms break down all the time, like toilets on aircraft carriers.

[–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 5 points 15 hours ago

they have a poop deck just in case.

[–] MutantTailThing@lemmy.world 10 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

He’s probably gonna chicken out again anyway.

[–] BC_viper@lemmy.world 3 points 16 hours ago

Yah. Because thats what little bitches do. And trumps a bitch.

Little dick having bitch.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 5 points 15 hours ago

Yeah America's track record (even before Trump for the libs in the back) does not imply respect for international or even American humanitarian law. Pete Hegseth can kiss my ass if even a single pilot refuses to drop the bombs.

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