this post was submitted on 05 Apr 2026
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PPS: Please at least TRY to read the following (if possible, not just the title) with an open mind and in a spirit of tolerance. It was written in good faith by a Linux user who will be staying on Linux.

PPPS: Among all the mean-spirited downvoting and insults and calumny (hey, this is social media) I actually learned a few useful things from this discussion. Perhaps the highlight was the tip about an obscure crowdfunded project which really fits the bill. Too late this time but I'm hopeful such projects, including Pine and Framework, might be become more available and more affordable in future.

PPPPS: I do not reply to downvoters (after all, you're declaring you don't care what I have to say). Or to people who obviously have not read beyond the title. Sorry. My post is very clear and I cannot express what I wrote better. In summary: There is a worsening problem with Linux compatibility on low-end hardware, due to the decline of desktop computing and in particular to the insurgency of ARM and Mediatek. It may hurt to hear it but it's true and we should care about it. Thanks to those who offered constructive feedback.

I'm frustrated. Once again, I have had to buy a computer I didn't want in order to stay on Linux.

Some background. Compared to most people in this forum, I am a somewhat normal computer user. That is, I have not touched a mouse in decades, I use a small lightweight low-end laptop (which is not slow on Linux), and I do not take anything to pieces. To be clear, I'm a programmer and a massive FOSS idealist. But I've never been interested in hardware, and in this respect I'm a complete normie. Let's not forget that for most ordinary people, a "computer" these days is the tethered corporate toy in their pocket.

For me this slide away from free personal computing is now getting impossible to ignore.

  • 20 years ago I could buy a laptop (a Fujitsu) from a major European electronics retailer which came with a Linux CD - a Linux CD! (Kanotix, a Debian variant).
  • In the late 2010s, I had a nice choice of cheap Taiwanese Wintel netbooks. So there was a Windows tax to pay but at least the hardware worked fine.
  • 4 years ago, the options were getting thin on the ground. For 400€ I could find only one Linux-compatible X86 laptop, made by Acer. And since I didn't have a Linux live USB, I had to (fake-) register the thing with Microsoft in order to get access to the damn web.
  • Today, there's almost nothing left. Intel laptops have all but disappeared from the budget aisle, replaced by ARM-powered Chromebooks and, increasingly, big Android tablets with keyboards. Putting non-spyware Linux on these things is often possible, sort of, but it's a nightmare. You're back to the 2010 era of ROM-flashing on Android, using repos from random developers and wading through impenetrable forum discussions. It's a massive PITA. This is not the way computing should be done, and normal users will never do it even if they were capable. It's hardly secure either.

The geeky suggestion which I can hear coming, "buy a secondhand Thinkpad", is not a proper solution. It's a band-aid fix with a timeout (PS: meaning it's on the way to EOL). Hardware from the likes of Tuxedo and Framework is nice but too heavy (PS: correction, Framework is not heavy) and way too expensive for me. The Pinebook Pro is always out of stock.

And anyway, for years I have wanted to move from a laptop to a convertible tablet (like the Surface or Lenovo's Yoga and Duet lines) (PS: meaning the form factor pioneered by those models, the cheap options these days are invariably on ARM). It makes so much sense ergonomically and even in terms of maintenance. (Keyboards have moving parts. I have to change my Acer because it has a faulty keyboard which cannot be fixed except professionally at prohibitive cost. Crazy.) But none of these computers are easily compatible with Linux. It's possible, yes, but hardly simple.

I considered, for a fleeting moment, throwing in the towel. After 20 years.

And then bought yet another laptop, basically the same model as last time except a Chromebook. I know I'll get an OS I control onto it without too much stress. That's a relief. But I'm more worried than ever about how this story is going to end.

PS: I should have predicted the bitterness and negativity and cynicism I would provoke simply by sharing my thoughts and feelings in good faith. Social media is absolutely incorrigible. In the meantime I will of course be staying on Linux, as I thought I described.

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[–] CannedYeet@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/configurator/cto/index.html?bundleId=21R3CTO1WWUS1

New Lenovo ThinkPad T14s 2-in-1 Intel (14″). You get a $94 Windows tax deduction when you configure it with Ubuntu.

[–] Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 48 points 4 days ago (13 children)

I'm not really sure what you're complaining about here. Laptops are too expensive? Yeah, so is everything else. That has nothing to do with Linux. And why would buying a second hand machine be a temporary solution? Laptops are always being phased out and flogged off for cheap. And you can run Linux on pretty much any x86 machine, now and in the foreseeable future.

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[–] one_knight_scripting@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Yeah, after reading your whole post, I don't understand why you are so frustrated.

You mention finding a Linux compatible laptop, but it doesn't seem hard. I didn't even go the thinkpad route, I got an IdeaPad. And even afterwards, I swapped it for a OneXPlayer. On top of that I have two XPS's running Arch. And that's just laptops, I also built a gaming PC for it. And I have a docker host plus a dual socket hypervisor both running Linux.

I just don't feel like it is particularly hard to find a Linux compatible laptop, sure I had to update a wireless card to use my Bluetooth 5.3 headset, but beyond that I simply haven't had an issue. In terms of a convertible laptop, check out the company I linked the product I got may suit you, or if it is too small look at the Super. Even way it is literally an x86_64 tablet with a magnetic keyboard.

Edit: fair warning, the display is top right (1600x2560) and I had to rotate it via limine Linux kernel parameters and hyprland. Also, it doesn't like cachyos for the same reason. Arch with linux-cachyos via chaotic aur? That works fine. No idea what breaks it, but I rather like omarchy anyways and didn't wanna change back.

[–] BussyGyatt@feddit.org 2 points 2 days ago

I dont understand the bruhaha that got you to -20. I have some of the same issues as you do. I don't quite understand what laptops you're looking at that don't support linux, but maybe you're using a particular distro.

[–] anamethatisnt@sopuli.xyz 14 points 4 days ago (4 children)

With an average yearly inflation of almost 2.5% the 400€ in 2006 is the same as about 650€ now in 2026. I have to remind myself of this constantly to avoid being too much of a penny pincher.
Add in that all low cost computers are at least 50€ costlier 2026 than 2025 due to the AI datacenters hogging all the memory increasing the price of storage, ram, cpu and gpu.

I know you don' t want a second hand ThinkPad but they are wonderful long lasting machines. I got a functioning T440 and a T480 both with Debian on them. Second hand from myself as I got them for cheap without storage from work. Saving up for one, second hand or not, might actually save you money due to longevity.
The keyboard replacement of the proper Lenovo T series is also simple
https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Lenovo+ThinkPad+T480+Keyboard+Replacement/140096
Just watch out for the Lenovo TXXs series. The "s" makes them slimmer and much harder to replace parts in.

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[–] promitheas@programming.dev 9 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I know you may be feeling disappointment and exhaustion from the negative replies, but please dont stop talking about this issue. Im a technical guy. Ive got no problem with - and in fact find it fun to - flash and deal with the problems you describe, but I also desire linux to become at the very least one of the main OSs people use. To do that, I realise it needs to be a simple enough process, which it is installer wise if you have a flashed USB (also not a complicated process nowadays to do). However as you describe, its the hardware compatibility and support from HW vendors that is the main hurdle now.

Make noise. Just like your post. Weve been making noise on the software compatibility enough to the point its now no longer impossible to have a linux system runnung with the software we need for daily life/work/school, but the next step is getting the HW manufacturers on board. I do feel like its a cycle though, of not enough number of users to convince HW manufacturers to officially support linux, and not enough HW support to get the users we need to migrate to linux. Who knows how it will turn out or how long it will take, but for sure we need to be making noise to get the support we want.

[–] JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world 5 points 4 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Thanks for the solidarity and encouragement. Honestly, this not the first time this happened - i.e. carefully writing a post that I naively assumed might start a fruitful conversation but instead got mocked and downvoted to oblivion because... human nature, it seems. Each time I tell myself: not trying that again, maybe it's time to leave social media. And each time there's a friendly person like you who pops up with some nice words and I feel better straight away! Thanks.

[–] a_good_hunter@lemmy.world 11 points 4 days ago (8 children)

Lots of companies sell laptops with Linux on them. One is in the Netherlands.

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[–] PetteriPano@lemmy.world 8 points 4 days ago (2 children)

400€ in 2006-money is 600€ today. Starlabs used to have a cheap model, but I guess it's hard for anyone to be in the budget segment with RAM prices these days. I bought a huawei matebook a few years back for about 600€ - they're sold with Linux pre-installed in China, but not here. But that means that stuff is well-supported.

In my mind the landscape is quite a bit better than 20 years ago. You'd have to pick and choose a model that worked well then. Chipsets are usually well supported by the time they are in laptops today.

The Microsoft tax has been under pretty heavy NDAs lately, but it wouldn't surprise me if M$ were paying to be pre-installed. They're in the data mining business, not operating systems in 2026.

But yes, we're all still waiting for the year of the Linux desktop.

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[–] BussyGyatt@feddit.org 1 points 2 days ago

im using a lenovo 2in1 model x12 rn, second hand for i think like $450 on ebay shipped. i installed fedora silverblue, it took about 30 mins including the time to download on my cell connection. i think you may be misoverestimating the difficulty involved in installing linux on anything made in the last 6 or 8 years.

[–] atropa@piefed.social 10 points 4 days ago (4 children)
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[–] nykula@piefed.social 7 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I agree that incompatibility of most Android devices with free OS development is a huge problem, and that Android devices taking up an increasing share of all computers is a problem for FOSS rather than a benefit, despite the use of the Linux kernel. In shops around me, none of the phones affordable for someone with a 400 EUR / month salary will ever have LineageOS support, meaning that after two years they'll all end up running abandoned, outdated, proprietary operating system forks, despite nothing technically preventing these capable computers from running a secure, up-to-date free OS for a few more years. This isn't because of any issue on the LineageOS side, but because the entire Android device ecosystem is fixated on producing planned obsolescence and locking the user in.

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[–] frongt@lemmy.zip 8 points 4 days ago (4 children)

I don't understand. First, usually laptop keyboards are pretty easily replaceable, there should be teardown videos for just about anything on YouTube. You shouldn't need to pay a professional, or buy a whole new laptop.

But even if you do, it's just "buy laptop, install Linux". Yes you may need to troubleshoot some driver issues if the manufacturer doesn't target Linux, but that's part and parcel of using Linux. If you want something that Just Works, buy a Mac (and use MacOS, not Asahi Linux on it).

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[–] Libb@piefed.social 7 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (12 children)

For the price comparison between then and now: you should probably not compare the price in today money with the price from 10 or 20 years ago: inflation is a reality and your 400$ from 2000 wouldcost how much in today's money? Maybe 800$, more? So, it's not that bad.

The real issue, the one you should be worrying about and pointing out to people, is that while inflation is doing its thing (making prices go up), salaries have not gone up at the same rate, quite the opposite: our salaries are worth less. And that is the real place where most people (those who earn their living through a salary, aka most of us) are being screwed up. Bad.

But I’m more worried than ever about how this story is going to end.

I'm not a dev, I’m a mere GNU/Linux user myself (before Linux, I was using Apple computers and have been doing so since the mid-80s), but I too worry.

Not because of the price of the hardware (see my previous remark) but because I see little reasons to be optimistic about the future of the “general purpose” computers in general. And even less reason to be optimistic about the respect of our freedom and privacy on that computer. It almost already is a lost fight on our mobile devices. Edit: and most of it has been lost in the name of 'convenience', btw. And it’s a fight we are losing on the political/societal level. At the same speed we’re being un-learned, so to speak, of the core values of what being a citizen in a democracy is supposed to mean.

But that is a whole different story.

PS: I should have predicted the bitterness and negativity and cynicism I would provoke simply by sharing my thoughts and feelings in good faith.

Why worry about that? It's nothing new (and certainly not exclusive to around here) that most people don't like being disturbed, or annoyed. They won't change because it’s coming from you, or from I ;)

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[–] Sunsofold@lemmings.world 6 points 4 days ago (8 children)

Computing in general is expensive now, and gets far more expensive if you have specific desires like abnormal hardware. (anything that isn't a touch-screen-less laptop or a tower) You can slap Linux on just about anything, so it's not about Linux. Your troubles come from a messed up world economy combined with your niche desires. I have a machine I got around a year ago for ~€350. It has more than enough processing power to run Linux very well. It has a dedicated graphics processor.

Also, if you are a programmer, you are immediately not a normal computer user. Thinking of a smart phone as a computer also marks you as 'not a normal user.' Not using a mouse, if it also includes not using a touchpad, also a sign you are not a normal user. Having a preference on hardware that isn't 'bigger numbers' or 'more expensive brand name' marks you as an abnormal user. Knowing what FOSS means marks you as an abnormal user. You aren't normal, my friend. You're a Linux using, software programming, FOSS loving phreak. And that's not a bad thing.

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[–] JTode@lemmy.world 5 points 4 days ago

It's rather deliberate at this point. They are at war with general purpose computers, because we depend on those in order to have GNU/Linux, just as we depend on a free and open Internet to have this platform. If they can get the herd to fully embrace these locked-down infernal machines, that will be it, on a certain level. We will have RISC-V and the ability to deploy to FPGAs, but the voice of Little Brother will be heard only on their whim.

[–] Grass@sh.itjust.works 5 points 4 days ago

Picking hardware these days is like trying to find the best drop of water in a bag of dirt.

[–] hellmo_luciferrari@lemmy.zip 5 points 4 days ago (1 children)

...I am a somewhat normal computer user. That is, I have not touched a mouse in decades...

Using what metric does this make you a "somewhat normal computer user"?

How is it a "sacrifice" to stay on Linux here? How is this at all tied to being the fault of Linux?

Sounds like you are complaining to complain. Metaphorically shaking your cane at the sky and yelling at clouds. Computing has gone up in price, and things change. Something we all have to get used to.

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[–] tal@lemmy.today 5 points 4 days ago (8 children)

So what you want is a cheap, lightweight x86 tablet with no keyboard that runs Linux?

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[–] deliriousdreams@fedia.io 4 points 4 days ago (3 children)

I see what you mean and as someone who owns a surface pro collecting dust they're still working towards putting Linux on, I understand the barrier to entry that a normal computer user like my mother would face in the event that they needed to do this. You are correct about it being similar to loading roms on Android phones or tablets during the early 2000's, and even though there are a lot of reputable repos and flavors of Linux to choose from, I can see your point about the dwindling number of computers that either come with Linux out of the box, let you choose to buy without an operating system, or don't require you to load up windows to download that necessary bootable USB.

And you're right about buying used hardware. That hardware is dwindling in stock and even if it wasn't it'll only operate for so long without needing repairs.

Linux users (as someone who's newer to Linux) very often talk over the heads of the people they talk to online, assuming a certain level of knowledge that's absolutely not there for a normal person. Some of us need step by step instructions and a lot of the solutions I see here and other forums just throw out a bunch of jargon as a solution without a guide.

We need guides, people. Or at the very least something we can Google.

But we also need hardware that's reasonable and affordable which is a PITA now that AI has just taken over the consumer hardware space and pushed it to the back burner.

There's absolutely a reason that people are excited about Valve popularizing hardware that comes stock with Linux. I still don't have a driver for the fingerprint reader on my ROG Ally X and I can only imagine the problems when the laptop or computer you can afford isn't one targeted by a dev to be compatible.

Just because most things work doesn't mean everything works as it should. There will absolutely be headaches a normie computer user will have no idea how to fix.

[–] Specter@piefed.social 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Everything you just said can be fixed by buying Thinkpads. All of them are supported because some companies use Linux at an enterprise level. Until those corporations disappear, Linux will never stop being supported on them. I see a lot of doom and gooom that is frankly unhelpful especially now that the Microslop monopoly is clearly breaking down and there is more potential for Linux than ever before.

[–] deliriousdreams@fedia.io 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

The average person. I'm going to repeat that because apparently you missed it. The average person isn't buying used computers from enterprise resellers.

A new entry level Thinkpad from Lenovo is $935.10 on Lenovo's website right now and it comes with copilot. Buying used is a crapshoot because lots of those surplus or used business ones are being resold without RAM or in some cases Harddrives, which will obvious drive up the cost and that supply will be finite going forward as the RAM and components shortages continue. You don't even have to take my word for it.

Here is a guy who was salvaging business class laptops, refurbishing them and installing Linux to sell them to people who can't afford the new tech price increases and even he has been forced to give up doing that.

It's not about Linux not being supported. It's about barrier to entry.

My mother is not buying and installing RAM. My mother would not know what to do if she had driver issues on Linux.

And where with windows there's an assumption that you don't know anything about anything so guides with step by step instructions exist, with Linux, a lot of the time you'll get some lackluster instructions that assume you have a set amount of knowledge already.

So either you didn't read everything I said, and you're just responding to what you think I meant, or alternatively you wrong about what can be fixed by buying thinkpads.

https://youtu.be/T6eiFyJMWgM

[–] Specter@piefed.social 1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

The average person. I’m going to repeat that because apparently you missed it. The average person isn’t buying used computers from enterprise resellers.

The average person is most definitely buying second-hand laptops they can afford from Facebook Marketplace or similar, enterprise-grade or not.

It’s not about Linux not being supported. It’s about barrier to entry.

Linux inherently has a barrier of entry by virtue of having essentially zero manufacturers selling hardware that ships with Linux installed. However I don't understand why you think price is a barrier of entry. If the majority of laptops are priced from 300 euros up to 4000 in some shops, then that's what customers are willing to pay. I don't mean now with the AI boom making everything more expensive either, I mean for the past few years this has been the market. Common people buy new from stores, or buy second-hand.

My mother is not buying and installing RAM. My mother would not know what to do if she had driver issues on Linux.

This issue is not specific to Linux. The used market is flooded with Windows laptops that no longer support windows 11 well due to only having 4-8 GB ram. Same with 8GB Macbooks.

I don't know why you're pretending that shopping for an older laptop model is only a problem for the average person if you want it to be Linux compatible. Also your grandmother doesn't have to do anything. She, like the average person, can take her laptop to a repair shop for servicing and upgrading.

This said, you're not the average person. You already went the extra mile by installing Linux on devices that don't ship with from factory. Further, you're specifically interested in small devices when the average person wants bigger screens, you want your device to be underpowered when the average person wants them as powerful as possible in a slim form factor without compromising on battery. Your rant has nothing to do with what the average person wants, your rant is, sorry to say, a completely self-absorved rant that just shows you're mad your niche preferences aren't supported by the Linux community, or the world consumer preferences as a whole.

"The sacrifice of staying on Linux after 20 years"

I mean honestly could this title be any more self-absorbed?

I would ask if you're a Debian user (or use a Debian-derivative), but what even is the point when I already know the answer.

[–] deliriousdreams@fedia.io 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I feel like you have a reading comprehension problem and I'm over it. If you don't think there's a limit to the number of used (affordable) home PC's in this economy with literally everything that's going on with new computer prices, component prices etc then you are not paying attention.

I don't know if you chose to single me about specifically because you didn't like that me and Op agree about some of the things they said or what, but I'm not here for it.

You flashed right past the meat of what I was saying to quibble about this "being linux's" fault when that literally wasn't the point. Op isn't blaming Linux and neither am I. Don't bother to reply if you're not going to read to understand. I don't care what you have to say if you're just here to be combative.

[–] Specter@piefed.social 1 points 2 days ago

I… literally thought you were OP. But anyways I respect your decision. Have a nice day.

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