either drugs, schizo, or STROKE turns you into a nutty right winger. the trifecta.
this post was submitted on 01 Apr 2026
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Oh my God, I super agree, probably in a way not a lot of readers here will expect.
Joining narcotics anonymous or alcoholics anonymous comes with an immediate expectation that you will “accept a higher power”. It is step one of “the program”. I find that profane as an atheist. And it was a huge problem when I tried to join the program.
I won’t get into it further, because it would be long enough for its own post, but the religious dogma in the 12 step programs, including alcoholics anonymous, is an incredible and introductory load of the bullshit that only expands further into more egregious loads of bullshit as you progress through the 12 steps. Some of it helps. Some of it makes everything much worse.
The 12 step recovery programs were invented by amateurs in 1936. If you’re looking to recover from addiction, there have been invented far more effective programs for recovery in the last 100 years by professionals who actually know what they’re doing.
If you want to treat your addiction to alcohol or other addictive substances, do your research. 12 step programs have, at best, a 6% success rate. They are your worst option. You can do better. You deserve better.
12 step programs are only there to shame you and guarantee failure. You will get nothing else there other than a community of shame and failure. And garbage religious dogma shoved down your throat.
Edit: I will say, however, that the vast majority of the people in those programs are looking not only to help themselves, but honestly caring enough to try to help others. So I am not judging them, just judging the program itself and how it has aged out of its own usefulness.
There is a ton of tacit religious dogma in a lot of American society/behavior in particular. It really shines out when you don't come from a Christian upbringing.
While I largely agree, most (not all, ofc) AA chapters will clarify that a “higher power” doesn’t have to be god. Could be fate, causality, or just the universe in and of itself - the purpose of the step is surrendering and accepting that you alone cannot resolve your addiction.
That being said, religion is pushed on you more often than not and many chapters will end with “the Lord’s Prayer” which always bothered me, along with other issues.
It’s not a perfect system, but it does work for many people and if it has helped you then all power to you (or rather your higher power, I guess)
My main gripe is that it often focuses on the symptoms rather than the root problem. Addiction is often the result of a deeper underlying condition that leads one to seek escape using substances, which then leads to physical and/or psychological dependency- be that depression, trauma, psychological conditions, etc… Treating the addiction alone can break the dependency but leaves alone the same conditions that led to substance abuse in the first place, which I believe is why you will so often see people repeatedly cycling in and out of the program.
Thats true, but then they will turn around and start praying.
"God, grant me the..." It is kind of hard to look past that for some.
Yeah :\
Personally I just turned that into a mantra, removing the “god” part, because it is a good thing to remember and try to live by, but I get the irritation
Daniella Young (Knitting Cult Lady) is a cult scholar talks extensively about this as well as other cults. I highly recommend her for more info on this and how terrible these groups are for anyone who is interested.
I've followed her for a little bit now. I guess yt could tell I seen a cup of perc coffee or two and showed me her videos about AA. Ill say, she's not wrong about poor behavior of repected members. She's missing a lot of context though.
She wants a top down enforcement of policy to root out bad behavior. Completely reasonable in a govt, business, or religion that has leadership that is stable for the most part for years at a time. This is not the case for AA. Most groups that meet on a given day are simply the people in driving range that want to chat and work on themselves a bit in some quick group talk therapy. The membership is informal so as not to put of the reticent. That might sound sus, but these are people that constantly refuse help, easily accessible help sometimes. People change groups, join multiple, join none but attend many, and a manner of things.
Its like asking America as a whole to do better with allowing pdf files to victimize children. Yes, but its not like anyone's encouraging it... and if anyone is a creep we watch out for it and warn people when necessary. Just like any group of friends in a neighborhood. Which is what we are, imo.
They took some anecdotal evidence from people that weren’t addicted to justify the “do it for a higher power.” People with issues (of almost any kind) more often feel shame bc they are letting the “higher power” down. It leads to disaster a lot. I love your insight.
Wow. Im an atheist. Im in an aa mtg room waiting for the mtg to start. No one gives me shit.
Step 2 is just accepting help. Admitting your not the one that has the all the answers. Every modern treatment ive heard of in 20 yrs either cribs aa, or eventually recommends it. Its not perfect, but I know dozens of people that are only alive because of it.
One of the steps is believing in a higher power. I was kicked out of rehab for denying this sentiment. They try to say that "OH, it could be anything!" and then continuously push Bible verses on you. The AA handbook is mostly Bible verses and evangelical propaganda.
The core ideas can work for some people. If those meetings help, despite your beliefs, then keep going. The one thing that has helped me is actually wanting to stop. That takes a lot, even if you don't recognize it.
They will blab on and on in AA, and it is 100% based in biblical texts (though there is an attempt to include everyone). And, sadly, one of the main things they will do in rehab is force you to sit in "meetings" where they have a guest speaker join. Guess what that speaker does - they try to convince you to join a very expensive rehoming, AA, or NA living facility.
My point is, the end goal is to want, not need, to stop. This takes a lot. After 20 years of drinking I had to want to stop to actually do it. For the same amount of time for smoking, the best I could do was switch to modern nicotine pouches. It worked. I haven't smoked in about 7 months, but since I don't want to give up nicotine yet, I can't. I'm trying to want to.
This is a long comment now, but my point is that the entire goal of the 12 steps sans religion is to convince yourself that you don't want that anymore.
Different approaches work for different people, and every room and every meeting is different. I've personally found Smart Recovery to be more helpful.
I've never found them anywhere I've lived. After a quick google, it seems the main difference is the powerlessness in 1 and the higher power in 2. To me that's just recognizing i cant stop once I start, and I cant stay stopped without help. Thats it thats all. Its not something I was taught, I've proven it to myself. Some people see a devil/God thing there because the culture in America in the 1930s was nominally Christian, and more observant than today.
The main benefit is I can find a meeting in almost any town, any day of the week. I feel at home in a meeting where I know everyone knows what its like to deal with addiction. I can sit down and feel ok, instead of on gaurd.
I am interested to know how low bottom cases fare in smart recovery. I mean like homeless junkies that boost for a living. 12 step recovery seems to have started from the bottom, and smart recovery from the higher bottom cases.
Work it. You’re worth it.
It's from the brain damage.
It's because they deliberately proselytize to vulnerable people at their lowest with promises of belonging and redemption.
To expand on this, AA is run by Christians that tell you only God and the baby Jesus can save you. Then they wait outside the meetings and pass out propaganda pamphlets. Scientology waits outside NA meetings. They are preying on the weak. It’s gross.
Wrong answers only… who hangs outside Sexual Compulsive Anonymous?
Wrong answers only… who hangs outside Sexual Compulsive Anonymous?
People handing out coupons for free entry to the local strip club.
Not you!
I've never seen you there either!
And also the brain damage.
And it's a straightforward, hands held path to wipe away your sins and claim a clean conscience. Of course people will be tempted.
Literally why The Satanic Temple has the Sober Faction. Secular support groups for recovery as opposed to first step put your faith in sky daddy.
Plus you get to say "I stay sober with the help of the Satanic Temple". Guaranteed for a fun reaction.
-and then inevitably writing a book about it and going to speak public about it at the local prison.
"I was once like you... but then I FOUND THE LORDS PRAYER in my heart. Low and behold, I shortly found cheques for speaking fees in my mailbox. Hallelujah!"
Plenty of athiests, agnostics, pagans, etc in NA. Look for the queer online meetings for a start.
Amen!
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