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Anarchy is a political structure where there’s basically no one in charge, right? But wouldn’t that just create a power vacuum that would filled by organized crime, corporations, etc.? Then, after that power vacuum is filled, we’re right back at square one, and someone is in charge.

Are there any political theorists that have come up with a solution to this problem?

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[–] nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

in parts of the world where there's pretty much no state reach, people tend to self-organize into neighborhoods and villages and shit. they share stuff and hang out and talk shit. the infrastructure tends to be minimal, with dirt roads and bamboo fences maintained resourcefully. a lot of stuff is just kind of jerry rigged together out of plants. people drink. mostly everyone farms.

people say that anarchism isn't possible, but actually there are huge parts of the world that have been pretty close to emulating it for hundreds of years. many tribes probably fled into the hills to escape tyrannical states and the history was just lost after a few generations.

[–] petersr@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

How do you get hospitals and health care and parental leave?

[–] nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

regarding the places that im describing and have personally seen, I would say that hospitals and healthcare are not really a thing. there's a lot of traditional medicine, herbs and things like that, effective at treating some things and not others. there's a lot of pseudoscience and superstition. there's also medicine that comes in from outside

parental leave is easy though, given the collectivism that is usually going on. families are multigenerational and they stick together and people help eachother out

[–] JayDee@lemmy.sdf.org 10 points 2 days ago (2 children)

'Basically no one in charge' is not exactly correct. Heirarchies are allowed to exist, but ideally should be as brief and flat as possible.

My best understanding of the end-goal is an intermeshing alliance of small democratic collectives working together to provide for one another. This type of system has existed previously, such as with the various tribes across the Americas which often traded and collaborated with one another. In contrast with previous times, there is vastly more understanding of how the world works now, and thus many more possible projects to strive towards.

There is also no expectation of some supposed utopia from this, as i understand - conflicts are still expected to flair up every now and again. The main aim is for equality and the absence of a single constant power structure which oppresses and dictates the conditions of all, but instead that there is a democratic collaberation defining the conditions for folks involved.

[–] FlyingCircus@lemmy.world 7 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Sounds a lot like a bunch of small states to me.

[–] JayDee@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 1 day ago

States have governors, towns have mayors, and in anarchist theory none of those heirarchal positions would exist. Usually, heirarchies are formed in order to complete projects and those heirarchies are supposed to disappear once the project is complete. Can't really have a state without a legislative body dictating it.

[–] communist@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

The original definition of state is different from the western nuspeak one that means government

the point being that there will be government, just horizontally managed.

[–] lastlybutfirstly@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Pretty much describes the US in 1781. The Founding Fathers were essentially trying to create a viable anarchy themselves but kept having to make compromises.

[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (4 children)

I love how there's a question asking how does a movement work, and most answers are from people outside of that movement, with only a superficial understanding of the theory behind it, confidently declaring it can't.

To answer your question, anarchism doesn't magically pop into existence. The way it comes into existence, which is prefiguring the existing system into anarchism, requires that the people already created horizontal power structures which forbid this "power vacuum"

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[–] obbeel@lemmy.eco.br 25 points 2 days ago

I think it's important to denote that some people categorize anarchism as a distant dream regime, for convenience of course.

You can see anarchism in action in the punk movement or other community efforts. People building bridges on their own, living in a gridless community, sharing art using their own methods like cassette tapes. That's all anarchism.

I'm not at the heart of anarchism. I'm not occupying an abandoned building to help the poor, for example. But I've read a couple of books on it.

[–] VampirePenguin@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

I view anarchism as a philosophy and lifestyle more than a government or system. Whenever you thwart, resist or defy authority, you are engaging in anarchism. This can't be a system because it is a negative. It's a response to power. What you are asking for is egalitarianism, and there are many kinds of egalitarian governance structures that have varying degrees of success. Ostensibly, the US is egalitarian. In practice, not so much.

[–] qevlarr@lemmy.world 27 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

The point of anarchism is the rejection of hierarchy. If enough people reject hierarchy, they would all be on board with not filling the power vacuum. That's why establishing anarchism is much more than getting rid of the current despot. It has to be get rid of all those with power over others, get rid of the concept of hierarchy, get rid of wealth accumulation as power concentration, get rid of anyone even trying to rule over others. They would have no support with anyone, because everyone knows power corrupts and we're not taking any chances. Nobody should desire to rule over others, if (1) nobody listens to you, (2) people will fight you, and (3) you, like everybody else, knows it's morally wrong

I'm not saying all of this is practical, but that's the idea. Dismantling hierarchy is difficult, but still not sufficient to establish anarchist society. People would just build a new hierarchy if not convinced that hierarchies in themselves are the issue

[–] Tiresia@slrpnk.net 37 points 3 days ago (18 children)

The issue is that it's not one problem, it's thousands. Anarchism has countless solutions for countless power vacuums, from regulating the flow of meetings to federating different Zapatista towns.

You yourself are probably engaging in anarchic power vacuum mitigation when your friend group decides when to hang out and what to do; if anyone got too much power or responsibility you would take action to make things fair again.

Generally speaking, power vacuums are dismantled by dissolving the hierarchies that can be dissolved, changing the material conditions so power is decentralized, and building a social structure to hold the remaining power conditional on not being authoritarian. You can probably remember doing these things with your friends (or former friends).

Anarchist theory is either descriptive, like critically analysing the Zapatistas, or it's putative, like sociocracy. So far we have no proven overarching theory of what works for everyone everywhere in every situation, but we do have lots of small anarchist collectives that are benefiting their members and their society in limited scopes.

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[–] wampus@lemmy.ca 8 points 2 days ago (6 children)

Read up on Spain pre-Franco, which was the only time that an Anarcho-state was seriously attempted. It basically coagulated into an Anarcho-syndicate, but failed miserably at getting many traditional 'state' responsibilities covered. When Franco rolled in with the backing of Hitler, Durruti was the only guy that tried to mount a defense, because the "government" couldn't come to a consensus on whether to defend themselves or not. Durruti had to literally raid government weapons stocks to arm a militia to try and fight back, but that totally failed and then they ended up as a fascist steel production center feeding arms to Nazi germany.

So that's about how it goes in practice. It's a style of government that's good in theory, but it fails when implemented, generally due to ever present outside influences. It's on the same sort of pedestal as communism really, in that lots of folks look at it on paper and think it sounds great, but reality's a bitch.

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[–] EffortlessGrace@piefed.social 48 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (7 children)

Taking the definition at its etymological root, all anarchy means is "without rule".

In my head-canon, that doesn't necessarily mean the lack of laws, state, institutions or governance; the implication is that there are no citizens or individuals with permanently elevated authority in the polity of government. Without rulers.

Many, of course, disagree with this mostly on the basis of practicality, but I'd like to think it's another way to describe the concept of "No gods, no kings, no masters, no slaves."

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[–] bigboismith@lemmy.world 41 points 3 days ago (5 children)

There are many types of theories, but they rarely are literally "no organized public sector". Generally you can more think of it as your municipality being more or less completely sovereign and independent.

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[–] AskewLord@piefed.social 17 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Yes, but you're thinking pragmatically. Like how it would work in the real world.

Anarchy is an ideal theory. It's not a practical or pragmatic one. It is argued for in comparison to other ideal theories.

Pretty much every political theory breaks down when subjected to pragmatic real world problems.

[–] LiamMayfair@lemmy.sdf.org 11 points 2 days ago (5 children)

This rings 100% true for me in regards to anarchism, communism, capitalism, socialism, feudalism... Pretty much any organisational structure that mankind has or will ever conceive.

People are difficult, irrational and unpredictable. Put a whole bunch of people together on a plot of land, multiply that 1 billion times over and you get the unfathomable clusterfuck that is modern civilization. Not even being defeatist about it, just pointing out the factual reality that the perfect society does not and will never exist, far from it. I am aware I'm rambling on and pointing out the obvious here.

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[–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 0 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

it doesnt, in TNG star trek there was a species that was totally anarchically but they were advanced enough to encounter other alien species, they originally were "civilized" race, but they are totally disorganized as a race/people. and i beleive the race is kill the way to the top, or until someone deposes you.

[–] Wataba@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 day ago

It wouldn't.

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