this post was submitted on 29 Mar 2026
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Assuming billionaires were going to get a special tax, how would you actually determine how much to tax them? Sure some would be straightforward like Musk where it’s entirely derived from a few companies with known ownership stakes, but what about all the others?

We don’t even know the names of most of the billionaires. With all the games they can play to hide money, now made even easier thanks to the changes Trump made in his first few months, how would you even figure out who and what amount to tax? They don’t have a normal salary or easily documented income like everyone else.

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[–] systemglitch@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

With bullets. On all of them.

[–] jpreston2005@lemmy.world 10 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Listen the IRS has routinely made clear that every time it's forensic accountants get to sink their teeth into a billionaires financials, the return on that effort is enormous. Don't ask "how are going to tax billionaires," first demand that they actually BE taxed.

We'll figure it out later, man. Realistically, just have a team of specialists that focuses solely on the ultra-wealthy, and then let "unrealized gains" be taxed if they were ever used as collateral for a loan.

[–] damnedfurry@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago

let “unrealized gains” be taxed if they were ever used as collateral for a loan.

This simply makes no sense as a concept. Collateral is something that you tell the one you're borrowing from "you can have this if I fail to pay my loan back". If the loan is repaid, literally nothing happens to the collateral, and it plays zero part in the actual transaction. There is zero non-arbitrary reason to tax an asset just because it was used as collateral.

Also, all home equity loans would fall under this definition, as well.

[–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 7 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

There are two loopholes to close:

  1. Capital gains taxes - income is income, not one guy pays 50% less tax than another based on how the money is defined. ie. plumber pays 45% taxes but if a guy invests in a plumbing shop, he only pays 30% or less. And for no good reason, hedge fund managers only pay CGT. Get rid of CGT and make lower income taxes.

  2. Borrowing money against stock values -this is a huge form of tax evasion.

3, heavily tax any money taken offshore.

In several different ways. The trick is to attack the problem of excessive wealth accumulation by making the system feed more aggressively on accumulated wealth.

A wealth tax is important to prevent the excess accumulation of capital. Money is only really working if it's in motion. Once it stops moving it stops adding value to the economy which is fine sometimes and in small amounts.

Tax disuse. Vacant real estate should be taxed extra. If they don't want it taxed it should be actively used in a non-extractive way. This means low impact agriculture, preservation, or occupancy not mining, dumping or logging.

Tax non-resident ownership. You can own as many houses as you want but each additional one beyond your primary residence is going to incur a scaling tax penalty. Two probably would be manageable Three would be difficult once you get to four and five houses you're going to find it extremely difficult to make any money. And the scaling tax penalty would apply to the most expensive one first.

If they're extracting resources from it or doing heavy agriculture they should be paying a premium and not externalizing wastes. They could be taxed to ensure compliance and enforcement is adequate. They should also be taxed in advance to fund potential cleanup of any toxic or environmental hazards. The money can be held in escrow but it needs to not be held by the same people who have a financial incentive to cut corners.

See I don't actually believe the problem is rich people or income inequality broadly it's the runaway effect of the accumulation of wealth in the absence of any kind of functional theory about how money is supposed to actually work in the economy.

There are people that are going to just work like crazy people and they will in any fair system acquire more resources than most other people.

I think in a fair system the people who are likely to end up with more resources would look very different than the people who end up with more resources in our systems.

Something people don't often understand about American dollars and American taxes is that the function of the government's tax policy is not to pay its bills. Our government doesn't need taxes to pay its bills. The function of the government collecting taxes is to delete money from the system.
They need to be deleting money from the places where there's too much of it. Otherwise that money crowds out legitimate money that is the representative of economic value produced through labor. If labor has no voice, then the economy stops functioning.

[–] hanrahan@slrpnk.net 4 points 2 days ago

outlaw wealth at 10x median, same way they have civil forfeiture for drug crimes in the US.

[–] Joloxino@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Set up a flat tax to close to 40%.

Can be paired with an automatic credit for around half of the poverty line.

Tax=(income × 0.40) - (poverty / 2)

The poor people get a negative income tax, while the people who earn more pay more.

No capital gains or any other loophole.

[–] birdwing@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That's just progressive tax brackets with extra steps.

[–] Joloxino@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago

Easier to sell a simple formula in congress than table brackets

[–] SorteKanin@feddit.dk 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

It's actually easy if you think about it.

Rich people love comparing their wealth to others, so they can feel better about themselves. So we know quite precisely how much each billionaire is worth, cause they really like measuring those dicks.

Anyways, we can use this against them. You just tax the wealth. Not the income. Not the surplus or the profit. You tax the wealth.

For instance, during the Danish election, there were some parties who proposed the idea of a wealth tax such that all wealth above, say 30 million DKK would be taxed by 0.5% to 1% (depends what party you ask) every year. Someone worth 100 million Danish kroner would therefore need to pay 70*0.01 million or 700.000 kroner in taxes every year.

You could do more than 1% and 30 million for billionaires if you ask me.

[–] jaykrown@lemmy.world 9 points 2 days ago

Land value tax and unrealized capital gains tax.

[–] Dagamant@lemmy.world 25 points 3 days ago (8 children)

The biggest loophole they use is taking out loans and using stock as collateral. Stock is supposed to be unrealized so if it is used as part of ANY transaction it should instantly become taxable.

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[–] graycube@lemmy.world 52 points 3 days ago (1 children)

You have a special division of the IRS whose job is to identify the top few hundred wealthiest individuals and then tax them. These people wouldn't have to self report like the rest of us.

[–] trashcroissant@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Idk how it is in the US but in Canada, they already have all our numbers. Really wouldn't be hard to enforce except many billionaires wealth doesn't come from their income.

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[–] jimmy90@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago

almost forgot... global corporation tax

there is no escape for weather hidden in companies and transferred around the world to avoid taxation

the current global corporation tax just the first step of destroying tax havens

Like the French.

[–] Geobloke@aussie.zone 4 points 2 days ago

Tax things they can't move like land and only things they pay for like jets, yachts, art...

[–] GreenBeard@lemmy.ca 32 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (7 children)

Two prongs. One, tax loans against stock options and publicly traded shares. Two tax foreign investment dividends that constitute more than 10% of the total value of a publicly traded company. Step one makes them live off of dividends and realized assets. They can't live off other loans of other people's money and just keep hording assets, two pins them down and keeps them from trying to take their money and run to a tax haven.

They will eventually find a way around those, and you will have to adjust the tax code to accomodate, but that's going to be true regardless. It's a bit like digital hygene and cyber security. An endless arms race between states trying to build more effective risk management tools and people trying to exploit and the system and thus the people living within the system.

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[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 11 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Wealth caps

Worldwide wealth caps

Start at 100 million..after a decade, lower that to 10 million

Anything, income, gift, whatever, over that goes 100% to taxes

Nobody had the right or need to be worth over 10 million dollars

Wealth caps are also an extremely simple solution, a very simple rule to add to the current system to fix so maby issues.

Governments will get so much more Income that they can immediately do free healthcare, free education, etc.

Nobody will have a huge amount of money, and as such, a huge amount of power anymore which will lower the chance of wars. With that we can significantly lower expenses to killing materials and instead focus on life

We can solve poverty, which, in addition to free mental health care, will also solve most crimes (yeah, crimes of passion will remain)

We can finally spend a huge amount of resources on climate change and fixing the environment around us!

We can make government funded non profit investment foundations for infrastructure projects, for independent journalism, etc so that we have great independent news and great infrastructure

A simple rule with so many great consequences...

But it would would require the rich allowing us to implement that simple rule. World wide. So it won't ever happen

[–] Fjdybank@lemmy.ca 6 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Sounds good in theory. But it is inoperative in a capitalist society. Here's a thought exercise:

Management might have a salary of $5 million but stock worth 1 billion. Maybe you expect they divest their stock? Okay, who buys? Who has control of the company? Does it become a societal asset? Can't have a company run by a million-person committee.

Your wealth cap works where someone has liquidity over 100million. I suggest that few do as it's not a tax-advantaged strategy.

[–] ptc075@lemmy.zip 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Although I agree, as a thought exercise, how about we also split up companies worth 1 billion dollars? We used to call them monopolies, but corporations have become very good at staying technically just under that bar. I'd argue this is part of the problem.

[–] Fjdybank@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 days ago

NOW you're cooking with gas!!

[–] shittydwarf@sh.itjust.works 27 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Tax them? Nationalize their assets

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[–] BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I wouldn't tax rich in any special way.

I'd get rid of all income taxes, and tax the shit out of luxury good consumption

[–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Bad idea. People will buy less.

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[–] Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 days ago

At gunpoint.

[–] hperrin@lemmy.ca 18 points 3 days ago

That’s the thing. If you pay people to figure it out, they will. It’s only through massive defunding that the IRS has become completely incompetent. They used to be quite good at their jobs.

[–] ChristerMLB@piefed.social 13 points 3 days ago

I guess you tax assets more and salaries less - and work internationally to make tax avoidance harder and less profitable by taxing capital flows and by cracking down on tax havens.

Unless you can get a political consensus on it, I don't think an inheritance tax will be very effective. Tax planners will find a way to transfer the wealth before it gets inherited, helped by certain kinds of politicians whenever they have power.

[–] village604@adultswim.fan 8 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Tax the total of any loans backed by speculative assets taken out in a one year period as both realized gains and income if they total more than 100x the average take home pay of the bottom 20% of earners (currently around $16k).

If they want higher loans without taxes, people have to be paid more.

[–] edgemaster72@lemmy.world 13 points 3 days ago
[–] AAA@feddit.org 6 points 3 days ago

Demand full proof of ownership from any company and asset. If they provide strawman, tax those.

If they don't provide verifiable information, seize the companies and assets and put them into public hands, or if that's not possible (digital services for example) deny them to operate in your country. The actual owners will reveil themselves quickly. Then tax them.

[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 6 points 3 days ago (1 children)

100% of what they make over $1B.

[–] AlecSadler@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I think OP is asking how you figure that out. In general, billionaires don't "make" anything - on paper.

[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 5 points 3 days ago

Close all the loopholes that let them skirt the capital gains taxes and other nonsense. Make it illegal to use stocks as collateral on loans. Etc.

[–] HasturInYellow@lemmy.world 6 points 3 days ago

With a large bladed machine.

[–] litchralee@sh.itjust.works 9 points 3 days ago

I was going to write about how an existing tax agency (the California FTB) is already aggressive at tracking down high-earning residents that leave the state -- whether in-fact or on-paper -- in order to collect precisely what the state is owed per the tax code. That is, the FTB already engages and challenges the precise amounts that these former residents write on their final California tax returns, with some more spectacular results being some incredibly detailed timelines for when someone finally stops being a resident in California, as defined in state law.

But then I noticed that because of California's proposed wealth tax (aka Billionaire Tax) on the November 2026 ballot, the SF Chronicle has already started a series of articles to answer the specific what-and-hows of the wealth tax. This is the first article, pertaining to enforcement, and it agrees that the FTB would be capable of pursuing any high-wealth individuals that the proposal would tax. https://www.sfchronicle.com/california/article/ca-billionaire-tax-mechanism-21330110.php

This proposed tax in California is written as a one-time tax, so the question of whether high-wealthy people could flee the state is nearly irrelevant, because either they're subject to the tax or they're beyond the reach of the US courts (eg Venus). Almost. The remaining questions are legal in nature, and don't really change how the tax would be pursued. Whether FTB simply hires a dedicated team or outsources to private investigators, the task is still straightforward: follow the money.

Unlike civil lawsuit plaintiffs, who have more limited means of chasing down a defendant's assets in order to get paid on a judgement, the California tax authorities enjoy the benefit of the subpoena power, that can be used to compel companies and banks to tell the tax authorities about where and how wealth is being held. It is, after all, a core power of a US state to administer a tax, especially when the tax is authorized directly from the sovereign power (ie the citizenry). Any other result would conflict with the very purpose of a republic: to unyieldingly serve the people.

[–] vane@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago

Take all of it every year. They are claiming that they are smartest people on this planet so they figure something out.

[–] AA5B@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago

An incremental step would be to look at the tax cuts of the last few decades, and role them back. That especially includes other types of income and passthroughs

As someone who has participated in startups, the options and shares market is a rigged game. We also need to restore rules for the ultra wealthy so they play the same game as we do

[–] zxqwas@lemmy.world 6 points 3 days ago

Taxing the ultra rich is easy. Taxing them without screwing over someone else in the process is hard. They can afford the best lawyers and accountants to find loopholes and still consider it cheap.

[–] CannedYeet@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

Not exactly a solution for the ultra rich oligarchs, but a progressive consumption tax would be a good policy. It would be applied as a sales tax on everything, everyone would get regular rebate checks to cancel out the tax on spending up to the exemption. It could make all the megayachts more expensive.

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