this post was submitted on 28 Mar 2026
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Working on products people hate (www.seangoedecke.com)
submitted 4 days ago by codeinabox@programming.dev to c/programming@programming.dev
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If I were a better developer, would I have worked on more products people love? No. Even granting that good software always makes a well-loved product, big-company software is made by teams, and teams are shaped by incentives.

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[–] ell1e@leminal.space 52 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (3 children)

Perhaps it's just me, but to me this article feels like belittling the problem by not differentiating between "hated" products and "harmful" products.

If a company makes you work on something that is hated, it's fair and good to have sympathy. If a company makes you work on something that is harmful or unethical, like many perceive Co-Pilot to be, then an article about getting user hate that doesn't talk at all about ethics feels a little tonedeaf.

I don't know, perhaps that's just me. I certainly don't envy the writer for being employed to work on it.

[–] its_kim_love@lemmy.blahaj.zone 15 points 4 days ago

This entire article feels like cope.

[–] EnsignWashout@startrek.website 13 points 3 days ago

Perhaps it's just me, but to me this article feels like belittling the problem by not differentiating between "hated" products and "harmful" products.

Exactly!

Hated product? Oh well. My paycheck still cashes.

Harmful product? Oh shit. Sorry boss. I'm still working on that. It's been confusing, but we almost got it. Annnyyyy day now, boss. Pretty sure we will get it on track next sprint. Or the one after. (Source: I once got well paid to "accidentally" kill at least one truly shit-head idea. It probably cost me a pay raise, but I left soon after for more money, and I'm still proud of that every time I reflect back on it.)

[–] kibiz0r@midwest.social 3 points 4 days ago (1 children)

“Harm”? What is “harm”? There are only well-made products or not-so-well-made products!

[–] unique_hemp@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 3 days ago (1 children)

A well-made online gambling "game" is harmful

[–] kibiz0r@midwest.social 2 points 2 days ago

Just to be clear: My reply was a (sarcastic but not inaccurate) summary of the attitude of the blog post.

[–] Kissaki@programming.dev 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

This post argues something that would never come to my mind. Of course software that annoys users has developers and development too. Of course its development also requires balancing user requests and convenience vs business and technical capability (and priority). Of course you can't directly conclude to [technical] engineering quality from its perception, behavior, or irritation.

What's left after these nothing-burgers?

Looking back, I’m glad that people have strongly disliked some of the software I’ve built[…]. If I’d happened to work on popular applications for my whole career, I’d probably believe that that was because of my sheer talent.

Wtf? They think they wouldn't be able to recognize that it's not solely on them or their superiority that their software is popular?

I… don't get it. Maybe I just don't get what this is supposed to be about.

[–] Tempy@programming.dev 2 points 1 day ago

People who find success can, sometimes, become arrogant and become blind to other factors contributing to their success. Just enough failure can keep you humble. Pretty typical human reactions.

[–] calliope@piefed.blahaj.zone 35 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

If I were a better developer, would I have worked on more products people love? No

There you go, justify your shitty work.

If you were a better person, you would work on better products.

You choose where you work and what you work on. The fact that you went from Zendesk working on a shitty product to Microsoft working on a shitty product is definitely about you.

In fact, a reliable engineer ought to be comfortable working on products people hate, because engineers work for the company, not for users.

“It’s ok that I work at shitty companies! They pay me more”

[–] MagicShel@lemmy.zip 16 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I'm not trying to defend that guy but I work for who is hiring when I'm out of work. I've spent 11 out of the last 40 months unemployed, and as a result I have no retirement savings to speak of — I can't afford to turn down work. I've worked for Ford, Home Depot, Autozone, Uline (honestly felt so relieved to get laid off, that place was fucking scummy), the Army, and a shit ton of places you've never heard of. I had to turn down working for an insurance company — and I think they are pretty shitty — because they wanted to pay 1/3 what I'm making today. And I make fucking nothing compared to Silicon Valley.

engineers work for the company, not for users.

On the other hand I've never made any bones about the fact that I work to develop good products and if someone can make money on that good for them, but I fight for the best design for end users I can. I have mostly developed internal software, though, and no one but me cares about internal users. You can tell because everywhere you go, front line workers are bitching about garbage software.

I might be wrong about the best solution, but I refuse to be evil. Even at Uline, I worked to make better software for the workers. But what a bunch of assholes.

[–] calliope@piefed.blahaj.zone 5 points 3 days ago

On the other hand I've never made any bones about the fact that I work to develop good products and if someone can make money on that good for them, but I fight for the best design for end users I can.

Your entire comment nailed it for me. Thank you for reading between the lines of my snarky annoyance and expressing it more eloquently.

I also love internal tooling and worked at shitty, bizarre places (General Dynamics, for one. Speaking of “places you’ve never heard of,” right?), and literally the entire reason to work there is to try make it better for the people who use the thing. Not doing that is preposterous to me!

Somehow the original author ignored the only thing I would care about. Or it’s there and I missed it.

[–] emerald@lemmy.blahaj.zone 25 points 4 days ago

People are mad at me for helping to build the torment nexus :(

But at least that means people are being tormented by the torment nexus :)