this post was submitted on 22 Mar 2026
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Science Memes

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[–] cogitase@lemmy.dbzer0.com 145 points 1 week ago (14 children)

Natural gas is used to produce hydrogen, which is then used in the Haber-Bosch process to produce ammonia from nitrogen in the atmosphere. Only about 6% of natural gas is used to produce hydrogen, so even if the price were to rise substantially, we could divert natural gas from other uses and have plenty for making ammonia. We also have other ways of producing hydrogen, it's just that natural gas is more established.

PEM electrolyzers paired with cheap solar in countries with high insolation can now produce hydrogen for less than the cost of natural gas, but we're only recently starting to see the construction of the large-scale green ammonia plants needed to accomplish this. Egypt is currently constructing a 100-MW green ammonia plant powered by solar energy. Even if you didn't have enough PEM eletrolyzers you could still just pass current through some salt water and produce hydrogen, albeit much less efficiently.

It's not going to be a catastrophic issue.

[–] Rusty@lemmy.ca 51 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (4 children)

Fun fact: Fritz Haber, the German guy that invented the Haber-Bosch process is the same Fritz Haber that developed a way to use the chlorine gas in chemical warfare. He was personally overseeing its effect in the battle of Ypres.

[–] als@lemmy.blahaj.zone 57 points 1 week ago

Clara Immerwahr, who was married to Fritz Haber and was a successful chemist in her own right, spoke out against his research as a "perversion of the ideals of science" and "a sign of barbarity, corrupting the very discipline which ought to bring new insights into life." She ended her own life the day before he traveled to the eastern front to oversee the use of chlorine gas against Russian troops.

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[–] marcos@lemmy.world 13 points 1 week ago

we could divert natural gas from other uses and have plenty for making ammonia. We also have other ways of producing hydrogen

We can't do any of those in a scale large enough to replace the destruction and have it online for the next planting season on the North Hemisphere. Or the next one on the South Hemisphere either, btw. Or the following ones for each.

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[–] 1984@lemmy.today 118 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (15 children)

A lot of dreamers here who never actually tried to grow something. A lot of YouTube video knowledge but no practical experience.

Its damn difficult to grow your own food. I think buying canned goods and storing them is the best option for almost everyone instead of trying to grow your own.

[–] hydroxycotton@lemmy.dbzer0.com 25 points 1 week ago (4 children)

As someone who has been trying to grow tomatoes in containers for about 10 years, I can confirm that it really is difficult. It took me about 5 years to achieve fairly consistent results and get the hang of properly amending the soil, planting correctly, watering, pruning etc. And I still have years where the production is really low, largely due to fungal diseases.

[–] mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca 22 points 1 week ago

see what you should have done is just toss some rotten ones onto your driveway or behind the shed and ignored them and next year you'd have had the biggest baddest bitchingest tomato plants you'd ever seen

[–] lepinkainen@lemmy.world 14 points 1 week ago

We planted tomatoes on the backyard last year and we drowned in them, kilos and kilos of the stuff

It also would’ve been a lot cheaper to get the same amount from the grocery store 😅

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[–] Nikls94@lemmy.world 25 points 1 week ago (8 children)

Bro my cacti died. Both of them.

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[–] dejova281@lemmy.world 15 points 1 week ago (2 children)

The best is community roles in a collective. If you try to do everything yourself you’ll fail but in specializing you’ll succeed. For produce, one neighbor specializes in tomatoes, the other cucumber, the other onions, etc etc.. that’s how human society survived in tough times and that’s actually as a species how we’re supposed to operate. As a community. Another reason why everyone is so dang lonely and depressed. Anyways, I digress..

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[–] Agent641@lemmy.world 13 points 1 week ago (5 children)

Buying dry food is probably better than canned. It's lighter, stores for longer, and is much more compact.

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[–] StillAlive@piefed.world 106 points 1 week ago (33 children)
[–] fizzle@quokk.au 35 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Hey. I quite like Canadians.

[–] Hadriscus@jlai.lu 24 points 1 week ago

I'm partial to the mexicans myself

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[–] Prunebutt@slrpnk.net 35 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] PhoenixDog@lemmy.world 17 points 1 week ago

whynotboth.gif

[–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 17 points 1 week ago

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.

[–] Soulg@ani.social 13 points 1 week ago (4 children)

Ah yes it's all my fault you're right whoops

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[–] BigBenis@lemmy.world 67 points 1 week ago (3 children)

You think food prices will come back down after it's all over?

[–] elvith@feddit.org 33 points 1 week ago

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

As if you'd need to ask that question...

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[–] Siethron@lemmy.world 60 points 1 week ago (8 children)

Plant a vegetable garden?WHERE?

DO YOU THINK I CAN AFFORD A YARD?

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[–] Catoblepas@piefed.blahaj.zone 58 points 1 week ago (1 children)

You should always feel free to grow a garden, but you shouldn’t necessarily expect it to be cheaper than buying food. Especially the first year, if you don’t live in a place where you can just dig up some dirt and chunk seeds in it. Even if you do you should make sure the soil isn’t literally toxic first, especially since it’s common to have a buildup of things like lead or arsenic from now-outlawed fertilizers that can be absorbed by plants.

My grandparents planted maybe half an acre? Of crops for 10 people, and it was supplemental, not a complete replacement. It also takes a lot of work and can go to shit if the weather is bad. You can account for some of this by planting a variety of crops, trying to head off drainage and shade issues before they start, and with supplemental watering. But don’t expect everything to be super productive every year, especially in the age of climate change. My sister had some plants not put out at all last year (peppers).

[–] trackball_fetish@lemmy.wtf 45 points 1 week ago (8 children)

Grow a garden where? On what fucking land lmao

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[–] BastingChemina@slrpnk.net 39 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

It's not just fertilizer:

it takes about 7.3 units of (primarily) fossil energy to produce one unit of food energy

Assessing the sustainability of the US food system: a life cycle perspective

With all the fertilizer, heavy equipment and agricultural practices the food production today is very inefficient from an energy perspective.

Without cheap, abundant energy available the whole food production system is not sustainable

[–] kungen@feddit.nu 21 points 1 week ago

Exactly. The Swedish government or something did some study recently to determine if we'd be able to be self-sufficient under a longer time if we needed to be, as we currently have a lot of food imports. The conclusion was "yes, but there won't be as much food diversity".

However, they completely ignored the fact that we only have a ~90 days strategic reserve of oil, and that basically all the machining used for farming runs on diesel. And there's currently no goals to change that.

If we can't import or refine diesel anymore, we will starve.

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[–] perishthethought@piefed.social 37 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] perishthethought@piefed.social 61 points 1 week ago

Ohhh..

Legumes are plants in the pea family Fabaceae (or Leguminosae), or the fruit or seeds of such plants. When used as a dry grain for human consumption, the seeds are also called pulses.

[–] r1veRRR@feddit.org 35 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Is this a good time to mention that animal ag is the most wasteful form of food we have? Further, consider capitalism and western rich countries. If the choice is between feedin poor people and feeding cows, what choice will the money make?

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[–] Agent641@lemmy.world 28 points 1 week ago

Most chemical fertilizer is synthesised from LNG.

The two biggest exporters are Russia (sanctioned) and Qatar (all plants shut down)

[–] Coleslaw4145@lemmy.world 26 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Good thing my country exports 90% of its agricultural produce, so if we start getting hungry then we'll just export a bit less.

(We learned the hard way a long time ago when we ran out of potatoes.)

[–] Viper_NZ@lemmy.nz 33 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Ireland was exporting food during the potato famine.

Don’t assume your food won’t continue to be sold overseas if the growers/wholesalers can make more money that way.

[–] Coleslaw4145@lemmy.world 17 points 1 week ago (7 children)

Ireland was exporting food during the potato famine.

*Britian was exporting food from Ireland during the famine.

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[–] WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world 19 points 1 week ago

I mean, you exported 90% of your agricultural produce back then, too.

[–] Emi@ani.social 24 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (14 children)

How worried should I be? And how much should I doom prep?

Edit: doom prep might have been a strong word, meant how much shelf stable food to stock up on but someone already answered that. Just have normal amount for regular emergencies.

[–] dandelion@lemmy.blahaj.zone 62 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

just a reminder that none of us can sufficiently "doom prep" and avoid the consequences of large catastrophes like those being discussed

beyond typical disaster preparedness: https://www.ready.gov/

probably the best thing would be to develop community ties - get to know your local weirdo farmers doing a CSA, make friends with EMTs, get to know your neighbors, get connected with a local community garden, etc.

We will survive or die together, individual prepping is not going to save you.

EDIT:

to more directly answer the question of what should be in your emergency kit, and how much food to store:

https://www.ready.gov/kit

The basics:

  • Water (one gallon per person per day for several days, for drinking and sanitation)
  • Food (at least a several-day supply of non-perishable food)
  • Battery-powered or hand crank radio and a NOAA Weather Radio with tone alert
  • Flashlight
  • First aid kit
  • Extra batteries
  • Whistle (to signal for help)
  • Dust mask (to help filter contaminated air)
  • Plastic sheeting, scissors and duct tape (to shelter in place)
  • Moist towelettes, garbage bags and plastic ties (for personal sanitation)
  • Wrench or pliers (to turn off utilities)
  • Manual can opener (for food)
  • Local maps
  • Cell phone with chargers and a backup battery

The extras:

  • Soap, hand sanitizer and disinfecting wipes to disinfect surfaces
  • Prescription medications. About half of all Americans take a prescription medicine every day. An emergency can make it difficult for them to refill their prescription or to find an open pharmacy. Organize and protect your prescriptions, over-the-counter drugs, and vitamins to prepare for an emergency.
  • Non-prescription medications such as pain relievers, anti-diarrhea medication, antacids or laxatives
  • Prescription eyeglasses and contact lens solution
  • Infant formula, bottles, diapers, wipes and diaper rash cream
  • Pet food and extra water for your pet
  • Cash or traveler's checks
  • Important family documents such as copies of insurance policies, identification and bank account records saved electronically or in a waterproof, portable container
  • Sleeping bag or warm blanket for each person
  • Complete change of clothing appropriate for your climate and sturdy shoes
  • Fire extinguisher
  • Matches in a waterproof container
  • Feminine supplies and personal hygiene items
  • Mess kits, paper cups, plates, paper towels and plastic utensils
  • Paper and pencil
  • Books, games, puzzles or other activities for children

Probably most people already have a pantry with several days of non-perishable foods - think canned foods, etc. Make sure that you are rotating your food - don't have a separate cache as your "emergency food". Instead, have a backstock of foods you already eat, and continue to rotate and eat from your pantry so you don't create waste by purchasing "emergency food" you never eat and then let go bad in your pantry.

You might ensure that you could feed 2,000 calories per person in your household. White rice is around 1600 calories per pound, so a 10 lb bag is 16,000 calories, so that's 8 days of 2,000 kcal per day (obviously you wouldn't eat just white rice, ideally beans and rice would be paired together). It depends on what you already eat, but I eat plenty of beans and have a decent stock of dry and canned beans, as well as rice. I probably have more than 8 days of food in my pantry, which is sufficient for emergency preparation.

Also note that refined foods store better than "whole" foods - so white rice will last longer than brown rice, bleached white flour will last longer than whole wheat flour, etc. (It's because refined foods tend to just have the carbs extracted from the food; whole foods have more natural components like oils that will go rancid, etc.). So when you buy whole foods, buy smaller amounts and rotate through them faster. Don't buy a 10 lb bag of brown rice for just you and a partner, maybe buy a small 1/2 lb bag or less.

[–] HumanOnEarth@lemmy.ca 24 points 1 week ago (4 children)

Individual prepping is only meant to bridge the gap between distaster and community or national assistance/cooperation.

So have some emergency food, water, but prepping properly is actually things like learning to garden well, save seeds, learn to preserve, learn how to forage, build community connections.

[–] azertyfun@sh.itjust.works 14 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Gardening and foraging won't get you anywhere if you live in an urban area. You need an absurd amount of arable land per capita if you want to survive. A vegetable garden is useful in times of war not for raw calorie input but for supplements (either for specific nutrients not commonly found in rationed food supply or for taste).

The good news is that food production is a "solved" issue. Any industrialized country is capable of producing enough calories to feed itself and then some, even without gas imports. Worst case you just stop growing bioethanol and beef to double the amount of available arable land at no tangible human cost.

Those who'll get fucked by Trump's war are not Americans or Europeans, it'll be poor economies that can barely support industrial agriculture in the best of times. Their ability to buy fertilizer is very price-sensitive, which we already saw in 2022, though at the time the US had leadership willing to intercede and guarantee grain shipments.

This time, millions will die, but not in a prepper fantasy kind of way, but in a "they live in a 'shithole country' and we won't care to help because our money finances ICE and bribes now" kind of way.

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[–] SomeAmateur@sh.itjust.works 25 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (4 children)

Prepping gets a bad rap from the crazy people building bunkers and zombie traps that people saw on reality tv.

I look at what my grandparents had. They had a nice garden and canned quite a bit of what they grew. They had tools and enough stuff on hand to do basic maintenance and repairs on roofs, plumbing and cars. They sewed quilts and baked their own bread regularly. They had enough cash saved to make sudden purchases for anything else. They had a shotgun for emergencies.

That doesn't sound crazy or paranoid, but resilient. I know most people can't do all of that but it would be nice to get closer to the mindset that governments and companies are nice but may not always be able or willing to help you.

[–] fizzle@quokk.au 13 points 1 week ago

The way I look at it is, the easiest 10% of the prep might get you most of the benefits.

A few weeks worth of water, a few days worth of tinned food, that kind of thing.

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[–] smh@slrpnk.net 20 points 1 week ago (4 children)

My partner and I are in conflict about food storage. I buy beans, pasta, and jarred foods when I'm stressed. He doesn't like sacrificing storage space and I think just sees it as clutter.

Anyways, I'm going to pick up more pasta, pasta sauce, and canned soup. Boxed macaroni and cheese. Stuff I know we'll cycle through and doesn't need much effort to cook because I know when things get bad I won't want to brain much.

Oh! LPT: textured vegetable protein is shelf stable dried soy protein and you can rehydrate it to add a ground beefy texture to things, like macaroni and cheese or pasta sauce.

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[–] ZombieMantis@lemmy.world 18 points 1 week ago (5 children)

It's a little late to start a food garden. You won't be getting any harvests for a while, and it won't be much. Best to stock up on shelf-stable goods now, and build community for mutual aid.

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[–] ParlimentOfDoom@piefed.zip 16 points 1 week ago

Piss in a bucket. There's your ammonia.

[–] Bwaz@lemmy.world 15 points 1 week ago (1 children)

In case anyone was wodering how much damage a single idiot in the White House can cause.

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