this post was submitted on 21 Mar 2026
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Soon after I joined Lemmy a few years ago, I searched for communities based on my interests and subscribed to the ones with the highest numbers of users to ensure they are active. Sometimes I joined multiple, but then saw that some people post the same thing to more than one, cluttering my feed, so I left the smaller ones.

It's only after my community ban from !games@hexbear.net for disagreeing about Ukraine that I was told about MeanwhileOnGrad, learning exactly what "the tankie triad" means and why big Lemmy instances have defederated from those. Lemmy.ml, where the ML probably stands for Marxist-Leninist, seems to have been defederated by fewer, possibly because it's run by the creator of Lemmy, Dessalines. Nevertheless, there is evidence of Dessalines holding the same authoritarian communist views as the rest.

Recently, there were two posts on !privacy@lemmy.ml about Signal, but then in both cases, admin davel (who is known on MoG for seeing CIA's hand in running Ukraine, among other things) and Dessalines linked (1, 2, 3) the same article by Dessalines, which not only argues Signal could be a CIA honeypot (as if it matters when proper e2ee is used), but also manages to shoehorn China even into that, claiming its government "prefers autonomy". This sort of portrayal of totalitarianism as sovereignty is the reason I unsubscribed from the community. As it has been said by others, ML is not a neutral instance but a means of pushing authoritarian views onto unsuspecting users.

Edit: Made the post title clearer.

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[–] jet@hackertalks.com 3 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Fwiw: signal is a honey pot, perhaps not by intent but by architecture.

Security postures are driven by capabilities not intentions.

Signal:

  • centralized
  • uses centralized push notifications
  • stores encryption keys in the cloud SVR

Thus a three letter agency has the capability of breaking signal, even if they don't intend to.

As a thought experiment imagine you run the intelligence service of a non-us ally country (nk, Iran, China, Russia, etc) - would you in good faith recommend using signal, as is, for your classified and sensitive government communications?

how to break signal

SVR stores master key backed by a trivial pin, but uses Intel sgx enclaves to prevent brute forcing... a TLA just gets Intel to sign new code for the sgx enclave that allows brute forcing, runs it against the cloud data extracts master keys, and ta da all communication revealed.

Signal allows people to store their master key using a random bip32 key, but even if you do this, none of your contacts will do this

[–] eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Don't forget that Signal has been funded by the alphabet soup spying agencies, so they have a reason to fork over keys. But saying that is somehow slander when it's public info.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 1 points 4 days ago

The signal protocol is solid, so people argue there isn't a known fault with the protocol which is true.

SVR prevents signal from having access to the keys directly, you still need to compromise SGX (which happened two years ago) or access to intel signing keys.

So the signal foundation doesn't have a trivial way to access keys, but the TLAs do.

[–] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 104 points 1 week ago (9 children)

Your life on the fediverse improves significantly if you just block the entire lemmy.ml and hexbear.net instances.

[–] toad@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 days ago

for me it was the opposite. At least those aren't spending their time whining about tankies

[–] Rose@lemmy.zip 33 points 1 week ago (23 children)

Getting closer and closer to that! The reason I made this post to begin with is to do a PSA, because it took me months of being subscribed to games on Hexbear to notice it's not a leftist community as it presents itself, but authoritarian communist. So I can't be certain all of their users are in the know, but is it worth keeping the instances unblocked if the bad outweighs the possibility of good?

[–] jimmy90@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

no you're not missing out on anything

these servers were some of the first which is why they appear to have a lot of communities

all the communities have moved on or been replaced on other servers so these servers are now a tiny fraction (faction? hoho) of the fediverse, exactly for the reason you experienced

[–] prettybunnys@piefed.social 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Much of the “left” communities here veer towards the auth right with a light “left rebranding”

[–] dickalan@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago

you can kick rocks with your horseshoe theory

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[–] MissesAutumnRains@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 points 1 week ago (6 children)

I hear a lot of negative talk about those instances, but rarely any specifics. What's the deal with them?

[–] Sophocles 35 points 1 week ago (3 children)

In my own experience, it's less that they spew out politics and more that they are just so defensive and argumentative. A lot of good lemmy communities are based on discussion and sharing cool stuff, while the denizens of those instances and the like are more online to debate, nitpick, and criticize. Like there could be a post of a dog picture and their comment would be critisizing the owner or introducing some political argument that is distantly related. Like bro, just enjoy the dog picture

[–] Rose@lemmy.zip 15 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (4 children)

I think the behavior surrounding my games@hexbear ban is also indicative not just of their politics but also of their behavior in general. Its moderator reacting to my report of Holodomor denial by publicly saying the comment has been reported by me is highly unethical. Then following my post about the situation (linked in the OP), one of their users reposted that to Hexbear and there were people tagging me as they threw insults at me, which amounts to harassment, considering I've never left a comment in that thread. There were admins in the thread as well, but they only piled on despite their rules prohibiting harassment and insults.

Edit: Here's a link to some specific examples.

Edit 2: They're now brigading this thread and tagging me again from here.

[–] Madzielle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Hey I'm in there! hexbear was my first block. Just do it if you enjoy not having your language policed or just general arguing. I don't think I'm missing anything.

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[–] yesterday@lemmy.ca 12 points 1 week ago (1 children)

This. I've seen a lot of obnoxious and/or argumentative comments from them, but one that stuck with me was when my first Lemmy instance had to close when Trump was inaugurated due to safety fears.

The first comment to the announcement post was a hexbear user saying something like "Yeah this is why capitalism doesn't work, America sucks and it needs to go down" -- which I do not disagree with, but the post was the admin sharing genuine fears and talking about the logistics of having to move to another state. The user didn't even say a "I'm sorry you have to close your instance because of this...", just straight up getting into politics when it wasn't the main point of the post.

(I will always miss you, possumpat.io; I hope the admin is safe and thriving!)

[–] teyrnon@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 week ago

You touch on the problem with talking with them. You can agree on the problem, get into what can we do about it, they are no, you can't do anything except violently overthrow your government. Also fuck you and I hope you die, their attitude towards us. Some of them.

Yet if they talked that same talk in those worker paradises of China and Russia they would be committed to re-education camps and gulags.

[–] null@lemmy.org 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Just a dog!? Despite making up only 13% of the dog population, pitbulls--

[–] teyrnon@sh.itjust.works 21 points 1 week ago

They are fake leftists working for fascists, and they will troll you if you argue with them, following you around on alt accounts with non tankie instances.

[–] Eldritch@piefed.world 16 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Hypocrisy largely. Heavy micro management and over moderation by admins broadly. Thankfully most are self aware enough outside hexbear to not leave their echo chamber. There are a few sub's documenting it.

Should discussion touch on certain trigger topics, and should your view deviate from dogma. You will often find yourself banned, either temporarily or permanently, without much discussion. Do you think imperialism and invasion of another country is wrong? Such as the United States current invasion of Iran or past invasions of Afghanistan? Well, if you happen to feel the same way about the Soviet Union's invasion of Afghanistan or modern day Russia's invasion of Ukraine. You would be classified as a mush-brained, imperialist turbo-lib.

Do you think genocide and cultural erasure such as what the United States and Canada did to First Nations people is wrong? Don't make a mistake of applying that unbiased to the plight of cultural minorities in China. Tibet, Hong Kong, and the Uhygers, all of course are glad to sacrifice their cultural and ethnic heritage. Under the penalty of imprisonment or death for glorious left unity with the party and President Xi. Any discussion of these groups dissatisfaction with it is CIA propaganda. And not well tolerated.

If you skirt around in only the most niche of communities with hyper-focused specific topics. Who have almost no capability ever touching or involving current events. You might avoid it. Otherwise you will run afoul of it at some point as many have.

[–] teyrnon@sh.itjust.works 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Let's not forget about the native siberians, the russians sabered everything on their way east.

[–] Eldritch@piefed.world 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Or the polish. When it comes to giant unwieldy nations, preserving power becomes more important than preserving large segments of population. Regardless of which economic system they larping as.

[–] teyrnon@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

When I was reading about Amanita muscaria, a mushroom I use occasionally, it talked about how the Russians to destroy the Siberian culture would take the shamans of the Native Siberians into helicopters and throw them out.

[–] Eldritch@piefed.world 6 points 1 week ago

Aaaah one of those handy not so fun facts. I 100% believe that had the immigrant settlers in the 19the century had helicopters and not covered wagons. They would have done similar to my ancestors.

They are tankie instances, where they think and then push narratives such as China is the greatest country in the world and does no wrong and that Ukraine is full of Nazis and Russia is the good guy They love their authoritarianism, but only as long as it's "communist" or generally antagonistic towards anything "western."

Anything that contradicts their narrow worldview is met with hostility, comment removals, bans, etc.

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[–] Ghostie@lemmy.zip 12 points 1 week ago (2 children)

So funny story, I initially joined Lemmy on the voyager app. By default they had hexbear.net blocked. I removed it because I didn’t know what that was or why it was there. Well I now know the preemptive favor they were doing for me and added them back to the block list. Thinking about adding ML to it too.

[–] Rose@lemmy.zip 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I believe that's from .zip rather than Voyager. When I joined, there were no blocks, but one or more of the triad were later added as a soft block via default user settings, as opposed to defederation.

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[–] socsa@piefed.social 37 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Lmao, bro Dessalines is legitimately the most cringe person on the entire internet. He literally will not comment outside his own instance, because he cannot handle any form of internet where he doesn't have his magic "win argument" ban button.

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[–] homes@piefed.world 23 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I’ve had hexbear blocked for so long, I actually forgot about it. Wow, that place is nuts!

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[–] Greg@discuss.tchncs.de 18 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Unfortunately I am considering creating lengthy black lists of trolls and irreversibly corrupted/poisoned instances. Still better than using a corporate operated political brainwashing platform.

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[–] Ulrich@feddit.org 14 points 1 week ago (14 children)

I've gotten into it with tankies time and time again over Signal. They point to all this hypothetical nonsense repeatedly and then refuse to provide evidence. Signal, on the other hand, has proven that they either don't have this info or don't provide it over and over again through publicly-disclosed subpoenas, but the tankies continue to push this propaganda, which one can only reasonably conclude that they're bad-faith actors and just "haters" of all things American.

[–] socsa@piefed.social 10 points 1 week ago

The actual reason they don't like signal is because China bans it and they need an excuse for why that isn't just transparently authoritarian bullshit so they have created this entire lore around it being a CIA honeypot.

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[–] 0_o7@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 1 week ago (3 children)

I don't give their opinions on China, Russia, NK, Iran, Ukraine, any sort of credibility. I've been banned from some of their comms but they're on point for pointing out the crimes and hypocrisy of the west, and there's a lot of deliberate effort to minimize their reach.

Fuck em' for defending authoritarianism but without them it's all propaganda from mass mainstream media and whitewashing of the west.

tldr: Fuck tankies and wankies trying to whitewash their atrocities with concern trolling.

[–] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 11 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

I really am not sure what you mean - at least on Lemmy. I don’t see pro-western propaganda. In fact everyone is highly critical and self aware of the vast majority of the West’s moves and motives. Even articles of the rare positive moves are met with skepticism and pessimism.

The problem is that the tankies automatically attack any post by someone being critical of any other non-western nations as being hypocritical. An argument by hypocrisy. Annoying as hell, a yapping ankle-biting tiny dog constantly interrupting the conversation with “But the West did/does (insert awful thing) too!” when 99.99% of the time we’re well aware of the West’s failings, and those failings don’t mean other’s can’t be pointed out.

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[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 10 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I did that years ago

Don't subscribe to anything Lemmyml if you want to keep your sanity

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[–] Yliaster@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (4 children)

Noooo "calling it "authoritarian" is meaningless"!!!

Stop "phrasemongering", it's "not fascism" when China pulls its shit! China also not guilty of Uyghur genocide, that's western propaganda you racist!

Smh. Tankie propaganda was making me mad, I'm actually glad I got banned off their subs for adamantly refusing to accept their lines of reasoning for their blatant, apologetic, wholly uncritical acceptance of china.

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[–] Ghostie@lemmy.zip 8 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

I got banned from their privacy instance for 3 days because of something that, imo, barely is justified by the rules they cited, while other people were being insufferably hostile. It may be one of the same posts you’re alluding to. Granted I let a troll bait me into getting frustrated (that’s on me). Mistermodal I believe the user name was. After that happened, I was seeing a lot of these same criticisms about ML on other communities. I paid more attention to how the people there conduct themselves, which coincides with your point. I’m still fairly new to the fediverse/lemmy entirely so I don’t quite know the lay of the land if they aren’t obvious in the name of the instance. I haven’t bothered going back because .world and other communities I frequent seem a little more normal, less unhinged, and less hypocritical.

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[–] CovfefeKills@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago (21 children)

Once had a ml slag try to reason to me that political censorship is good lol

It was high in "but but the those people over there are bad why can't I be?" energy.

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