Ask Lemmy

Depends. If the person is causing harm towards large groups of people or minorities at large by me supporting them, then I drop them. It's why I hate Harry Potter now. But, regardless, most of the media I consume that isn't games is usually not acquired by, erm, legal means, so I'm not technically giving them any money.

yes, or I'd consume nearly nothing.

it also scales, some shitier then others and of course you have to draw the line somewhere

I'm still a Rammstein fan so... yep, sadly.

I still listen to Kanye West music. Sometimes even the new stuff.

Depends, but generally yes. It's just too hard to screen all creatives for purity, some people are only good at one thing, but so good at that one thing. So if you don't let them do that one thing, it's like there's nothing left of them that is good. I probably won't give them my money, but as far as reading or listening to their stuff, enjoying their art, yeah I can. Can admit they are good in at least one way, if they are.

It's very difficult for me. But also I realize if you look closely enough at most any artist you can find something disgusting about them, so I don't look into it in the first place. Like I used to love r. Kelly, but after learning about his past with Aaliyah and the whole situation that landed him where he is now, I haven't purposefully listened to his music since.

Idk, maybe I'm a bad person and lazy but I like enjoying things and I have learned over the years that sometimes, ignorance truly is bliss.

If the content itself doesn't reflect the creator's shittiness, yes, but I won't pay for it.

Yes, I choose to watch news from all oulets.. for better or worse

I don't have the time or energy to go through the lives of every single person involved with a game/show/movie I want to enjoy to see if anyone involved has problematic views. Like I'm going to see Project Hail Mary this weekend. If someone tells me at some point Ryan Gosling said some dumb shit while drunk or the book the film is based on has racist symbolism, I honestly don't care. I'm watching and judging the film filled with hard work done by tons of different people.

Some of the bands I like are comprised of literal murderers

I'm too tired to really spend my time being too correctional on what I should or shouldn't enjoy based on the actions some people do. It really depends. Ian Watkins is an exception, a horrible person, who made it easy for me to drop everything Lostprophets-related.

I still listen to Disturbed, because there's way too many songs I like from them. I don't have to care about David Draiman and I don't, because of what he did.

I will still enjoy Harry Potter, because I believe the universe is bigger than J.K Rowlings to where, anything she does or says will not knock down my enjoyment of that universe. I can and will ignore her existence.

Im not sure. Its a bit easier when the immoral behavior is a historical blip at this point and harder when the person is alive and we are talking about things in the last year. That being said if it does effect me at all it has to be clearly something and not something being debated and pretty severe and not just that they are an asshole. A lot of famous people have been assholes.

Yes. It's like eating meat.

There is nobody else on earth who agrees with me 100% on morality. (Jesus isn't on earth, and I only agree with him because of a commitment to change if he says something). Other than you might not be a Christian and thus have a different religious figure the above applies to you to. as such you have no choice about consuming something from immoral people.

the question is when does some immorality become so bad you reject someone because of it even though the thing I question otherwise has nothing to do with the moral issue.

Yes, we all do.

That said, everyone has a line, and if it makes my blood boil just thinking about them, I won't listen to them.

Good example: I used to follow this local band around. They mostly did covers. They took a song I loved and turned it into a pro-Nazi song. I'm not fucking kidding. Like a parody, but not funny. That was it for me. And I still kinda love a couple of their songs, but I will never listen to them again. That's a hard fucking line and they crossed it. And no, they were not being funny or ironic. My wife still thinks they're fine, but respects my decision.

For her, it's JK Rowling and her anti-trans stance. I too dislike JKR, but I'm also a big Harry Potter fan. I think the recent game, Hogwarts Legacy, is a great compromise. One, it has a trans character in it, and it's said that the developers did it to piss off JKR. Two, it has nothing to do with Harry Potter, except the castle. And I think a couple of the old wizarding families are mentioned? I can't think of any. There aren't any Weasleys, Snapes, Dumbledores... none of the main ones for sure, but I do vaguely recall hearing a name and thinking "oh that's so and so's ancestor." Very minor connection though. Mainly just the castle. You can explore the castle. Every bit of it. Except the Chamber of Secrets, the conditions for opening that are not present (you can't be a Parseltongue, for one). I think it's a fair compromise at least. She isn't so sure. She kinda wants to roll a Hufflepuff, but she also doesn't want to be seen supporting an anti-trans writer. And I respect her point. If I watch a Wizarding World movie (as in, JKR was involved with that, wrote it, whatever), I don't do it when she's home.

I still think Rooftops is a banger, but I won't listen to it after finding out what the singer was doing to literal babies. Even though he was recently killed in prison. I think it's okay to listen to Lostprophets now, because the rest of the band deserves credit for the work they did... but I don't wanna hear that guy's voice. I would listen to them if they got someone new to sing it. So I haven't heard it in... over a decade, at least, I think. I had it on a mix CD. I never owned their album. It's funny... the Japanese band ALI had a similar issue, but on a way smaller scale. Their drummer was scamming old folks out of some money. They pulled their hit song from streaming. Pulled the video. They immediately replaced the drummer, and re-recorded the song. At first I was pissed, I kept an archived copy to listen to. Then the new version came out. It sounds the same to me, but I respect them for doing the work to make a more ethical version. Says a lot for them. I think the difference may be, the drummer wasn't a songwriter, where the Lostprophets singer may have been, so he can't be cut out of the songs he made. I could only be okay with it if his share went entirely to victims, and not his family.

I do, even art that conveys bad values. Some amazing choir songs are written by religious zealots, rap songs that are sexists, and artists like Rammstein who are bad people singing about bad things, but i still enjoy their music. Listening to extreme metal really sets your bar low for what quality music should be and what message it should hold.

yeah crazy fuckers I don't give a shit

Yes, I think it's okay to enjoy whatever it is you enjoy so long as doing so doesn't harm others or yourself. I also think it's important to be mindful what it is that makes you feel like there's a moral quandary, and it's also worth considering if the media you're consuming is the work of a group of people or a single individual.

For example, I really enjoy the movie Chinatown, but Roman Polanski is a piece of shit. I don't think his shitness diminishes the quality of the movie because it was acted well by Jack Nicholson and Faye Dunaway; the writing is incredible as is the cinematography; and credit where credit is due, Polanski directed the movie masterfully. He's still a child rapist piece of shit though.

If someone didn’t then, idk…

They would only read the passages of the Bible about Jesus or something

If I know someone is a terrible person, I can't enjoy their work. Besides not wanting to financially support them, I like to put myself in an author's, actor's, writer's shoes when I watch/read stuff.

That said, I don't purposefully look into people's lives; I'm not into celebrity gossip. But sometimes a person is such an outlier or just so vocal about it that it's unavoidable.

All the time. It's definitely possible to appreciate the artistry in spite of their negative qualities and not because of them. It also kind of forces you to think about how humans are multi-faceted and complex beings, and that we're often the products of our environments or things beyond our control even when the individual decisions are up to the person.

Has Kanye West been an awful person at times? Yes, I don't actively listen to his music but I'll be damned if My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy isn't a masterpiece. Kanye has obviously struggled with mental health and personal issues over the years.

I'm a huge Beatles fan, and did John Lennon hit his wife one time and basically abandon his first son? Yes, but he realized his mistakes and tried to change later on and wanted peace and love in the world. And he basically had no father and barely a mother, a textbook example of generational trauma in young men.

(Also Ringo was probably a worse drunk and more violent person than John, but that doesn't get talked about nearly as much.)

And these are issues people struggle with everywhere, not even counting the added pressure of being famous and successful.

None of this is to excuse their actions or the actions of people like them, but I think understanding some causality goes a long way in appreciating people as humans, let alone artists.

Listening to pirated Burzum mp3s from time to time:(

Brennan Lee Mulligan touched on this briefly in a podcast (1:03:24) and gave his own example about taking some of books off his bookshelf and what he does with them. It's difficult to grapple, and nuance is always going to play a role.

Everyone does some things right and other things wrong. Generally it takes repeated or extreme action in either direction to taint a person in the minds of others. I doubt many people have prints of Hitler's artworks framed and hung, but loads still listen to music by Michael Jackson regularly. It's all about context, I think. Trevor Noah's recent example is pretty similar to this topic. A slur in one place can hold no meaning in another.

It's very much a spectrum of our own beliefs, our joys, and the things we find repulsive. Like spilling black paint on a watercolour rainbow. To some it might go in the bin, others might still see the beauty in what remains. So long as you don't hang it on the wall because of the black stains, I'd say you're fine whichever you choose.

Only secondhand, via reporting by the observers monitoring right-wing spaces.

It does suck when one's formerly favorite author (Warren Ellis) gets outed as a sexual predator, or when the same happens to an actor (Cas Anvar) on your former favorite show, but there are plenty of other fish in the sea and I'm never going to run out of ethical creators to patronize.

I'd say for the most part, yes. I am not actively researching bands or authors that come up on lists and other things beyond just "do I think I will like this". And if it's, idk how else to phrase it, not "major" grievances, I'll still likely consume the media. I tend to pirate books then buy them if I enjoyed them, and I pay for YT Premium so the music just comes along with it. However, for the more serious stuff (a la Lost Prophets), they are skipped and removed from libraries. If stuff is brought to my attention about new artists, I'll also act how I feel accordingly. I don't take it upon myself to push others to share my view, but I do appreciate when others inform me, so I try to do the same.

If it's just humor of creators, I would probably still watch it, but when it skews toward hateful, it becomes less funny. I don't need an agenda, I want something smart and funny. Humor that is reduced down to slurs or just trolling is not funny. If I was 12, maybe, but those days are (long) gone.

I've been let down by shock revelations about content creators so many times I'm starting to think they're awful people by default.

There's a reason they say you shouldn't meet your heroes.

We all listened to and loved Bill Cosby comedy records as kids, we would listen to them constantly. Needless to say, we don't really bring them out anymore. It's a shame. Other artists, I suppose, I love Michael Jackson's music but I still have no idea what's actually happened with him, I think I would listen to it regardless though. I still watch Weinstein movies because I don't think he really had a lot to do with the creative process making those movies. Otherwise I'm not sure, not mindlfully at least.

I really don't. I feel like what I consume and enjoy is a reflection of me.

Depends on what they did and how it puts them in perspective to the messages in their art.

Problematic is tolerable if I'm not actively bankrolling harm to someone. But I don't want to experience art made by people divorced from their own message.

I've done my best to mentally discredit Gene Roddenberry of contributing anything meaningful or worthwhile to Star Trek. Despite what the fandom and producers claim otherwise.

But no, I can't really bring myself to abide by 'separating art from artist.' The artist puts their intent into the work. There's no separation to be made. Simple.